How is duke ranked #17?

[Spice1]

I can't figure out how duke jumped to 17 in the polls after being out last week. Good win at BC but they are 2-4 in their last 6 games. I keep hearing dukie V saying "Well they beat Gonzaga and Indiana"...so what. Zags will only be in the NCAA's if they win WCC tourny and Indiana is barely in as of now. The G'Town and AFA wins are legit but that isn't enough to crown them. Terps are the same 20-7 and have won 4 of last 5 while duke has lost 4 of last 6. Maryland pounded duke, won the CvC, beat Winthrop (legit mid-major unlike Zags), stopped Illinois home win streak, beat Mich St. Terps are ranked #35 or #40 depending on coach's poll or AP. I know I am a homer but, come on.

[HellYeahHokie]

I think you already know the answser to that question.

[Spice1]

.t least it will be fun to watch them lose 2 more games in regular season, 1st round ACC tourny loss and then be the highest seed to lose in the 1st round of the NCAA's. BTW, how did you guys get run out of Raleigh?

[HellYeahHokie]

Everything the Wolfpack threw up went in. It was a little absurd. I mean they played well, and if they had just an average shooting night, they probably still would have won, but they just couldn't miss. They were 11-14 from 3-point land! And off-balance jumpers in traffic were dropping. I don't know how that team can play so well against VT and UNC, and lose to everyone else.

I think it's just a match-up issue. I think if VT played NCSU 5 times, the Pack would win 4 of them. For whatever reason, its just a bad match up.

But this was also the game I wanted to see, just to believe the Hokies had a chance to make a run. Now I'm convinced they won't. They have the potential to lose 3 more games down the stretch. Part of me believes they will respond again, but part of me worries they won't. They didn't match up well with BC either. UVA can't play worse than they did the last time, and Clemson is a question mark because they haven't played yet.

I'll certainly be happy with a Top 4 finish, and hopefully NCSU will be on the opposite bracket in the ACC tournament. Let someone else beat the Pack, and maybe VT can make it to the final.

[Spice1]

The Pack had the opposite type of shooting night last week against Terps. I think VT is a match up problem for many of the teams they face. Very athletic and Greenberg has them consistently playing hard. Clemson is a wildcard right now. They are free-falling but any team that starts out winning their first 17 games (against a real schedule) obviously has the ability to get it done. They will really need the win when you play them so it should be a great game to watch, as far as effort. The ACC tournament is wide open this year, I can't wait. Terps need to finish sweep of duke and beat (or at least compete)UNC at home to give me the confidence that they can make a real run.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Try this. Duke has a #3 SOS, an #12 or so RPI and is 7-9 against teams currently within the RPI top 50. Also, so many teams between 17 and 25 lost last week, so there was room to climb up the ladder. You have understated Duke's win against Indiana. After all, Indiana defeated Wisconsin and are a lock for the Big Dance despite losing at Michigan this past weekend.

[Spice1]

how could they be 7-9 against teams currently in the the RPI top 50 when they only have 7 losses? I know we beat your a## pretty bad but it shouldn't count as 3 losses for you.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

In providing further explanation to the original question asked by you regarding Duke's deserved ranking, Duke is 9-7 against the RPI top 50. And don't get too excited about Maryland's convincing victory against Duke. Everyone nationally knows by now that Maryland has nothing else more important than beating Duke in basketball, and the two teams play next week in Durham where Duke has lost close ACC games already. The way things are going a Maryland loss at Duke might place the Terps firmly on the bubble as teams such as VT and FSU have already won in Cameron. And you better get your wins in now as Duke and UNC are only to get better over at least the next 2 to 3 years.

[Jrunz31]

Their name is "Duke" enough said man. Its a shame but the truth.

[H.I.]

duke probably shouldn't have dropped out of the polls in the first place. yes, they lost 4 in a row but they were pretty competitive with a couple of those coming down to the last play. with their overall profile (high sos, high rpi) they should be rated higher than maryland. with all of that being said, both probably won't make it out of the first weekend of the ncaa's.

[Spice1]

Nothing else more important, unless you count National titles, which Maryland has won more recently than duke. I'm not sure why you are convinced that duke is going to get any better than they are now, UNC maybe, but duke, why? Cameron game won't move Terps down if they lose, their home games are more important in respect to the committee. They already have at least a split in the duke series.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Selective stats is the way of the Baltimore Sun when talking about Duke. BTW, the selection committee looks at road and neutral site wins when comparing teams with near equal resumes. You know that. While I think Maryland, FSU, Clemson and VT will all earn NCAA bids along with at least 4 other ACC teams, Maryland and Clemson are the only ones who have yet to win at Cameron. And every Maryland fan know how great a barometer Duke is. After all, Gary Williams success against Duke along with a near recent and fading memory of a natl championship have kept the boo birds away. My rec to Williams is to defeat Duke and lock in a bid because one more year in the NIT will not bode well for the program. Any doubt, see Amaker at Michigan.

As far as Duke getting better of the next few years, you really should look at Scout.com and see how well Duke is recruiting in 2007 and 2008.

[Spice1]

Selective? Isn't the top goal to win a national championship? As far as getting a road win at cameron, it is still a possibility. As for duke getting a road win at Maryland, we already know how that turned out. Last time I checked, duke has been bringing in top classes year after year. The current team is filled with McD's all-americans, what has it done for them?

[H.I.]

spice,

whatever maryland has accomplished on the hardwood, duke has done that 10 fold. know your role.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

There are so many Maryland fans, not all of them though, who act as if college basketball started when Maryland won its first and only national title. For some reason, that's the comparison point.

[Spice1]

can you be more specific?

[Spice1]

I only point that out when you speak of Maryland in a program decline. duke is obviously an accomplished basketball program but you would have to admit that they have not been on top for a while now. I have respect for what duke has accomplished over the years but certainly don't feel that Maryland is a second class citizen when it comes to college hoops tradition. Don't you love this time of year! The ACC tourny is going to be a classic. Just about anybody could get hot and win it......except duke of course :)

[HellYeahHokie]

Big night at the top of the ACC. VT pounded Boston College here in Blacksburg. They were up by 30 at one point. I didn't think they would be able to keep Dudley in check because he destroyed them in Chesnut Hill. This was a huge win for the Hokies, showing they could beat a team that beat them badly (because they didn't do it against NCSU, obviously).

Then, UVa lost to Miami, of all teams. That leaves UNC alone in first, VT and UVA tied for 2nd, and BC alone in 4th. VT plays UVa, who they beat badly last time, and Miami and struggling Clemson. It's great that Miami beat UVa, because it will keep the Hokies from overlooking them. So the Hokies have the potential to win the rest of their games and finish either alone in 2nd place, or tied for 1st...if Duke manages to beat UNC the last game. And given VT's sweep of the Heels, that would put VT as the #1 seed in the ACC tourney. How about them apples?

Still, it's one game at a time. Hokies just might do a Jeckle and Hyde routine down the stretch.

[Spice1]

i watched the vt game, impressive stuff. bc has been sleepwalking long streches of games but nothing like tonight. Hopefully Terps can help you out with unc this weekend in College Park.

[jeff4bucks]

There are so many Maryland fans, not all of them though, who act as if college basketball started when Maryland won its first and only national title. For some reason, that's the comparison point.


Ask a Kentucky fan, or UCLA or Indiana fan, and they'll probably say the same thing about Duke and their fans. Although they made several Final Fours prior, they didn't win it all until 1991.

[shadow yoshi]

After about number 15 in the rankings, it doesn't really matter. Everyone else is just a big group of mediocrity, Duke included. I can't stand Duke, but I have no problem with their ranking after watching the bottom 8 in the top 25 go 3-13 last week.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I agree with that point and have said the same before. However, anyone who discounts winning 3 natl titles since 1991 (which only Duke has done), numerous conference regular season or tournament titles over the past 20 years, and gave Coack K 700 wins faster than anyone other than Adolh Rupp is simply not offering a balanced viewpoint. A great example of where Maryland's program stands against Duke's right now is that when Maryland swept Duke during the regular season a couple years back, Maryland headed to the NIT while Duke was extending its streak of Sweet 16 and beyond appearances. Everyone talks about how Duke must win it all or bust because of their recruits. Just ask Kentucky, UCLA or Indiana what it means to have highly touted teams and not win it all in most years. Having the talent means that every year, you are one of the teams to beat and you have a good shot at winning the natl title. For anyone to think that any more is guaranteed is not part of continued success.

[Spice1]

Good argument, it points out that even though Maryland swept duke, won 19 games, and finished 6th in the ACC, they were left out of the tourny. duke was already being listed as a lock this year when they had only won 18 games and lost 7. I have consistently said that duke has accomplished much. I believe that most people's problems come from the preferred treatment duke has received on and off the court, similar to notre dame. It is entirely possible that duke loses 3 more games (already lost once to UNC, Maryland, and controversially squeaked by Clemson) this year, bringing the total to 10 but will still make the dance. As far as asking UCLA about about not winning it all in most years, you might want to skip that. Losing in the round of 16 is underacheiving when you have 7 McDonalds all-Americans and the all-time ACC scorer.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I do think that even Coach K would admit, albeit privately, that his resume should include more Final 4s and at least 1 or 2 more nat'l titles.

[Spice1]

In fairness to duke, the NCAA field expansion has made it more difficult to win it all than in the past.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

If basketball followed baseball's post-season structure with many best of 3s, maybe Duke would have won more titles. Then again, maybe Arizona in 2002 would have won 2 of 3 from Duke. Also, we might not have had Villanova in 1985, NC State in 1983, or George Mason in 2006. Hmmm, but wait maybe Duke would have won 2 of 3 from UConn in 1999 with Brand, Magette and company in a double elimination format.

[Spice1]

Are you concerned about the large droughts on offense that duke has displayed in many games this year? If Clemson could make a free throw last night, that 26 point first half lead would not have held up. Terps have been having the same scoring drought issues and it will probably shorten their season.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

The scoring droughts are mainly in the 2nd half and that definitely concerns me. Duke is winning this year because they are out-hustling the other teams. The shooting percentage is low from all spots on the floor including at the charity stripe and beyond the arc. They get beat around the rim and turn the ball over endlessly. Somehow, I wonder how they win any game, but it's the hustle that does it. Only if they could hustle in the NCAA tournament when they have a top-5 team. Nice win versus UNC last night. Duke finishes at home versus Maryland followed by at UNC. I foresee a Sweet 16 berth and then adios for the Blue Devils. The Duke women are Final 4 if not championship material. One good thing losing to Maryland in the NCAA final last week gave Duke was a drive for perfection and to not take anything for granted especially against good teams.

[Spice1]

.t least it will be fun to watch them lose 2 more games in regular season, 1st round ACC tourny loss and then be the highest seed to lose in the 1st round of the NCAA's.

They are who I thought they were!

[jeff4bucks]

good call Spice

[Spice1]

And it FEELS good too :)

[HellYeahHokie]

Air Force gets left out for losing games down the stretch. Duke gets a 6 seed. A joke.

Way to go VCU.

[H.I.]

duke probably shouldn't have dropped out of the polls in the first place. yes, they lost 4 in a row but they were pretty competitive with a couple of those coming down to the last play. with their overall profile (high sos, high rpi) they should be rated higher than maryland. with all of that being said, both probably won't make it out of the first weekend of the ncaa's.

word.