Was Tim Hardaway Wrong?

[BossTalker]

I was reading some blogs on Fox and noticed how many people injected race in their views. Some stated that he should have known better because it wasn't that long ago that blacks were ostracized. Do a black man and a homo share the same plight? I always thought that being a faggot was a choice and being black was God given. The only mistake that Tim made was being politically incorrect.

[jeff4bucks]

I was reading some blogs on Fox and noticed how many people injected race in their views. Some stated that he should have known better because it wasn't that long ago that blacks were ostracized. Do a black man and a homo share the same plight? I always thought that being a faggot was a choice and being black was God given. The only mistake that Tim made was being politically incorrect.

being a faggot?

He shouldn't have said anything at all. Even if he feels that way, why say anything? Whatever post-playing career he has will most likely be over. Totally dumb and unnecessary on his part. And I've always like Hardaway, going back to him 'Run TMC' days in Golden State.

try reading something other than Fox to get some balanced views...

[H.I.]

was timmy wrong? that's up to your own personal opinion of the situation. his opinion is just as valid as all of these liberal hippies that probably want to hang him for his beliefs. i could care less if anybody is gay or not. i could also care less if people like tim hardway feel the way they do. its not nice that tim feels the way he does, but to take away his right to feel that way and express his views is about as unamerican as it gets. the sad this is we've seen a lot of these the past 20 years with everything else people are afraid to discuss.

[PSUFan]

Last time I looked we live in the United States of America and we have the right of free speech.

I'm not saying what he said was right, but he has the right to express his feelings the same way John Ameachi did when he came out of the closet to sell his book.

The only difference between the two is that Hardaway is being made to look like the pariah in this matter.

[BossTalker]

Oh, and do you know that "faggot" is considered to be a severely insulting term, like the "n word"?

I didn't know that! Wonder if calling someone a pedophile will be politically incorrect one day....perhaps that's where things are headed...

Also, the plight of the black man has no similarities to the gays! Last time I checked, gays have never been hung with a fork up their asses nor castrated. They have never been denied the right to vote or anything of that nature. Homos should miss black folk with this BullSH*t comparison!

[HellYeahHokie]

Last time I checked, gays have never been hung with a fork up their asses nor castrated. They have never been denied the right to vote or anything of that nature.

What planet do you live on that you've never read stories about gays getting murdered and tortured and denied housing, etc... Whether you think being gay is OK or not, you can't tell me you deny gay's have had it very very tough. There's a reason most gay people stay in the closet.

And given how much it sucks to be gay, and have most everyone hate or fear you, exactly what would be the motivation for someone to "choose" this lifestyle? Can you imagine a white person choosing to be black throughout most of United States history? To choose a life of discrimation and marginalization?

Who would make that choice?

[HellYeahHokie]

Ameachi didn't say he hated straight people, did he?

Hardaway said he hated gay people. He didn't say he disapproved of the lifestyle. He didn't say he had a religious conviction that homosexuality was wrong. He said he hated gay people.

His right to free speech comes with the reasonable assumption to be judged by that speech.

[Scarlet Hayes]

this nation's priorities are severely out of whack. Or, at least the media's priorities are. we have so much going on and we're concerned with what Hardaway said about gays???? good grief.

3 quick notes:

1. to compare the plight of gays with the plight of blacks, in America, is absolutely absurd. Gays weren't enslaved. And there's no comparison to the extent of post-slavery persecution. None. Perhpas you can find a few instances here and there where gays were lynched. But, to compare it to the black experience is almost disgusting.

2. blacks, or any other race on the planet, can't choose their race. Gays probably can't choose their orientation, but they can choose whether or not to engage in gay sex. so....again....to mention the gay experience right alongside the black experience is, IMO anyway, absurd.

3. Even though I've always been a "what you do in your bedroom is your business" kind of guy, I'm beginning to waffle on that. The notion that your sex life only affects the 2 people involved is utter hogwash. i.e. have ya seen what Aids has done to Africa lately? It's KILLING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT. Who, for the most part, has ushered in Aids to the general population? people that engage in gay (male) sex acts.

[HellYeahHokie]

1. to compare the plight of gays with the plight of blacks, in America, is absolutely absurd. Gays weren't enslaved. And there's no comparison to the extent of post-slavery persecution. None. Perhpas you can find a few instances here and there where gays were lynched. But, to compare it to the black experience is almost disgusting.

The reason there aren't more documented cases was because gay people can hide in a closet. Black people can't change the color of their skin (except Micheal Jackson). Gay people stayed in the closet out of fear. Fear of abuse, fear of losing their jobs, fear of being killed. I think that fear compares very much with the fear of being black in America through most of our history.

2. blacks, or any other race on the planet, can't choose their race. Gays probably can't choose their orientation, but they can choose whether or not to engage in gay sex. so....again....to mention the gay experience right alongside the black experience is, IMO anyway, absurd.

If they can't choose their orientation, then you concede that being homosexual is something that defines who they are. It's what they are born with. Nature, not nurture. If this is the case, then why shouldn't they live their lives as who they are?

3. Even though I've always been a "what you do in your bedroom is your business" kind of guy, I'm beginning to waffle on that. The notion that your sex life only affects the 2 people involved is utter hogwash. i.e. have ya seen what Aids has done to Africa lately? It's KILLING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT. Who, for the most part, has ushered in Aids to the general population? people that engage in gay (male) sex acts.

AIDS in Africa is being spread predominantly through heterosexual contact, and from mothers passing it on to their unborn babies.

[Scarlet Hayes]

Fellas, correct me if I'm wrong here. yes, i realize that Aids is ripping through Africa's hetero community. But, I said that it was gays that ushered Aids into the general population.

[Scarlet Hayes]

As a straight male, I am oriented to bang as many chicks as I possibly can. But that doesn't mean that it's ok if I do it. Look, if someone were to tell me that my sexual desire was "wrong" I can't imagine the struggle. To be gay (or straight) and to not be permitted to fulfill your lust would be extremely frustrating. I admit it. But....in short....that's a weakness they need to work on. i'm not saying it's cut/dried and easy. I don't know what else to say. Life is a beyotch.

Keep in mind, I'm speaking from the Christian perspective. With that in mind, i have plenty of my own shortfalls to deal with.

I'm just a little disgusted that we're (as a nation) making a big deal out of this when people are actually getting killed. Ya want to be a freak, be a freak. But don't try to tell me that being a freak, or freakish tendencies, should be embraced by society. Tim H "hates" gays. So what. I "hate" UM. And we all know that Wolverines are "freaks." :D

[Scarlet Hayes]

And back to an earlier point you made about whether the "live and let live" approach should apply: two men having sex across town can't give you or anyone in your family AIDS. Everyone has a responsibility to take care of him- or herself.

While that's true in the strictess sense, my point was that your actions really do affect more than the 2 people engaged in sex. what if the guy is infected with an STD and donates blood? I know we have better screening processes than we used to, but the fact is that it has happened. And his/her's actions directly affected other people. A gay man has Aids and his exteme need for healthcare drives up insurance premiums. Again, his lifestyle has affected other people. A bisexual man infects a female lover (say his fiance) with Aids. Had he not been promiscuous, she wouldn't have been infected.

[Scarlet Hayes]

I'm speaking from the Christian perspective, too.

I don't care of Tim H hates gays or if you think they're going to hell, except it's a fact that that kind of talk has a direct connection with innocent people being murdered.

This topic can get so easily misunderstood.

From a Christian perspective, gays aren't going to hell any faster than any other unsaved person. Indiscriminately banging broads while, at the same time, rejecting Christ's payment for my sins isn't going to make me feel any better next to the unrepentent homosexual in hell. i.e. we're both in hell.

As far as it having a direct connection with innocent people being murdered, I disagree. People say all kinds of crazy stuff. the simple act of saying goofy stuff isn't automatically going to get someone killed. If someone's going to go out and kill a homosexual due to what Tim H said, then I'm betting the guy (like how I assume a murderer is automatically male. Like you, I digress) was going to do it anyway. i.e. the murderer is a nutcase. While I'm sure it's true that a murderer of gays has made, or heard, hateful remarks about gays, I highly doubt it was the uttered word that pushed him over the tipping point.

Free country. Freee speech. And, if Hardaway gets blasted for it....free speech works both ways. Tim now knows what the Dixie chicks feel like. I just can't believe the media is all over this like it's something extreme as, say, people getting killed in a mall in Utah.

BTW, LMAO on the GT slam. Good stuff. :)

[Scarlet Hayes]

Do I want the government to silence the comments? No.

Ya might've spoke too soon.

brave new world? Scary stuff: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54260

not really sure how to link on this board yet. Hope it works. If not, just C/P.

[PSUFan]

True. And in this free country, people are free to make someone like Hardaway look like a pariah. And if the NBA as an official policy wants to endorse tolerance of homosexuals and chooses to dissociate itself with someone who makes those kinds of remarks, then the same rules apply. It's a free country.


Can't agree with you more...but who are we to judge who is right and who is wrong?

Freedom of Speech was one of the principals this country was founded on...both have the right to state their feelings even if they are wrong.

[PSUFan]

Ameachi didn't say he hated straight people, did he?

How do we know for sure he doesn't??

[EvilVodka]

He shouldn't have said anything at all. Even if he feels that way, why say anything?

bingo
if you say something like that, the media is going to be all over you...

tim hardaway is an idiot

[HoyaSooner]

My opinion? Hardaway didn't make the smartest move with what he said, but I really don't care. He can feel however he wants. As far as I'm concerned, being gay is a sexual fetish. It's no different than a guy who jerks off on women's shoes, or some guy who gets off on having clothespins clipped to his nuts. It's way out there in "what the hell happened to you when you were younger?" land. If Hardaway wants to hate them, I'm not gonna tell him he's wrong for the way he feels.

[HoyaSooner]

Can't agree with you more...but who are we to judge who is right and who is wrong?


Oh, I can judge all I want. The difference is that other people still have the right to be wrong.

[HellYeahHokie]

Not surprising. Bigots seek comfort in each other.

[HoyaSooner]

Not surprising. Bigots seek comfort in each other.

Hey! Whattayaknow? A liberal who can snipe.

[Scarlet Hayes]

Not surprising. Bigots seek comfort in each other.


Am I right when I say the following? A "bigot" can be right/correct. And an "open-minded" person can be wrong.

I mean, what or where is the virtue in approving anything and everything? I mean (playing devil's advocate when using the word "bigot") at least the "bigot" has standards.

My whole point, or rant, is that I just don't get how people that embrace homosexual behavior are somehow more enlightened and more intelligent than those that "hate" gays. Too much group-think going on out there...

[Scarlet Hayes]

And, by the way, it seems to me that most hatred of homosexuals is the result of too much "group-think". Some people's exposure to the world is very limited, so they let a twisted version of religion dictate how they feel about things. Or they have this odd notion that the freedom for some people to engage in certain sexual behavior somehow affects how they can engage in their own. I just don't get it.

it's a twisted view of religion to hate to the point of assaulting someone (justifying violence), but it's not a twisted view regarding scripture. There isn't a valid religion on the planet that considers homosexuality the equivalent of a marriage/union between a man and a woman. We're talking thousands of years of civilization here.

I really believe alot of people's angst against homosexuals is due to the activist bloc that's trying to push nutty arse crap like gay marriage. Dude, no one is trying to stop you (not you. you in general) from doing what you do. It's your push to make homosexuality equivalent to heterosexuality is where people get a little annoyed. Like any "cause," the gay mob has gone overboard and out of control. Time to dial it down a notch.

[BigTiger72]

So be it. He has the right to his opinion. He doesn't want some homo checkin him out in the shower and I for one don't blame him. I could care less if the guy is gay. But, stick him in the ladies locker room before and after games.:eek: