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Hero1957
05-12-2010, 04:04 PM
I confess, this is the first article I have seen about this place.
Have any of you heard of it?

Military Expands ‘Obama’s Gitmo’ in Afghanistan
Published on 05-12-2010
Source: Wired

The U.S. military is getting set to expand its controversial detention camp at Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan — just as new reports of a “black jail” inside the facility are surfacing.

In a solicitation issued today, the U.S. military put out a request for a contractor to build three new detention housing units next to the existing facility, known formally as the Afghan National Detention Facility at Parwan (Bagram is in the southwest corner of Parwan Province). As of last September, 645 prisoners were held there.

The cost of the project — which will include construction of one special housing unit and two detention housing units — is projected to run between $10 million and $25 million. The contractor will have approximately nine months to complete the entire project.

Presumably, these new buildings are in addition to Bagram’s separate and previously clandestine detention facility, revealed by the International Committee of the Red Cross yesterday. Nine former prisoners say they were abused there, according to the BBC.

Timing here is key: The jail is supposed to be handed over to Afghan control of the place, sometimes called “Obama’s Guantanamo,” sometime next year. (Afghan president Hamid Karzai would like tomake the hand-off even earlier.) Afghan and U.S. officials have signed an agreement to hand control of the Parwan facility to the Afghan ministry of defense, and eventually to its ministry of justice. The transfer may help resolve an issue that has caused a fair amount of controversy for the U.S. military.


Back in 2002, two Bagram detainees died in a prisoner-abuse scandal. And last year, The New York Times reported the existence of a “black jail” at Bagram that was kept off limits to the Red Cross. The military has maintained that there is no separate facility at Bagram: In a bloggers’ roundtable earlier this year, Navy Vice Adm. Robert Harward emphasized that there were “no black jails” at Bagram, but he did clarify that there was a short period of detention at undisclosed “field-detention sites,” where Afghan and U.S. authorities hold individuals to determine who they are and whether they have any actionable intelligence.

“We don’t disclose where those field-detention sites are, because of operation security,” Harward said. “They would be targeted. They’d be at great risk. At those field-detention sites, they’re held for a very short period, to determine who they are, their classification, immediately actionable intelligence. And then, from that point, they’re moved to our detention facility in Parwan.”

It’s worth emphasizing here that humane treatment of prisoners is considered a cornerstone of effective counterinsurgency. The idea is to prevent further radicalization of detainees, and turning detention facilities into recruiting centers for the insurgency.

In the roundtable, Harward borrowed a phrase from counterinsurgency guru David Kilcullen. The goal is to prevent the “accidental guerrillas” from filling up the facility.

“If that village says, yeah, he’s a bad guy, we’ve just gotten additional intelligence on him and better understanding of the individual,” said Harward. “The village may say, hey, he’s a bad kid but he could be good. Well, then maybe he does need a program where we teach him to read or write, and a short incarceration would benefit him and convince him not to be the jihadist, that he was the accidental guerrilla; that there’s options and purpose for him in Afghan society outside of that, and maybe we can give him some skills that will help him.”

Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/05/military-expanding-obamas-gitmo-in-afghanistan/#ixzz0nkOVF4We

MasterBevo
05-12-2010, 05:38 PM
hmnn... news to me.


But, I DID hear that the US ran an $82 BILLION deficit.. in APRIL! You know, the month when we ALWAYS have a surplus?

Are ANY of you liberals paying attention to what's happening in Greece? Do you really believe, it CAN'T happen here??

Really??

Oh... but, we "don't get along well on issues like this"... so, don't bother answering... cowards

ZOOMBAG
05-12-2010, 07:14 PM
hmnn... news to me.


But, I DID hear that the US ran an $82 BILLION deficit.. in APRIL! You know, the month when we ALWAYS have a surplus?

Are ANY of you liberals paying attention to what's happening in Greece? Do you really believe, it CAN'T happen here??

Really??

Oh... but, we "don't get along well on issues like this"... so, don't bother answering... cowards

We have a "mini-Greece" going on here in Omaha with civil-service retirements. The city is expected to be $12,000,000 in the hole this year and $22,000,000 next year. The cause? Union contracts that retirees get 100% of their health care covered for LIFE!!! The mayor basically said "no more" you are going to pay the "going rate" common in the private sector, or about 30% of the tab YOU are going to start paying RIGHT NOW, contract be damned!

They are absolutely HOWLING, going on strike, and suing, but it appears the law is on the city's side and the new deal will likely stick.

The alternative was bankruptcy which would have guaranteed civil service retirees got ZERO, ZILCH, NADA! ala Northridge California and other municipalities suffering CRUSHING expenses from arcane defined benefit pensions



This is what's in store for ALL those getting gov't checks, like it or not. We simply have NO DAMNED MONEY. IT's OVER, the gov't tit is going DRY. Liberals can simply shove it if they don't like it, because it is simply WHAT IS....

MasterBevo
05-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Greece needs maybe $150 Billion to stave off default for 2-3 more years.. ( Note... I said, "stave off"... Greece WILL default... there's no other way out)

California has a deficit of more than $500 BILLION JUST in the pensions for their state workers....

As a country, we are WAY PAST the point of no return. We cannot possibly escape from the debt hole we're in. So, this "socialist vs capitalist" debate is really MUTE now.

The only real argument left is... which philosophy picks up the pieces after the collapse?

tigercpa
05-13-2010, 01:55 PM
Greece needs maybe $150 Billion to stave off default for 2-3 more years.. ( Note... I said, "stave off"... Greece WILL default... there's no other way out)

California has a deficit of more than $500 BILLION JUST in the pensions for their state workers....

As a country, we are WAY PAST the point of no return. We cannot possibly escape from the debt hole we're in. So, this "socialist vs capitalist" debate is really MUTE now.

The only real argument left is... which philosophy picks up the pieces after the collapse?

It's always been mute from one side, now it's simply moot.

tigercpa
05-13-2010, 02:15 PM
hmnn... news to me.


But, I DID hear that the US ran an $82 BILLION deficit.. in APRIL! You know, the month when we ALWAYS have a surplus?

Are ANY of you liberals paying attention to what's happening in Greece? Do you really believe, it CAN'T happen here??

Really??

Oh... but, we "don't get along well on issues like this"... so, don't bother answering... cowards


If the American people knew that April 2010 came in about a quarter-trillion dollars worse than both 2007 and 2008 with almost 40% less in tax collections, most of them would be appalled. Many more than are already doing so would be questioning what in the heck this administration and Congress are up to.

The AP wire report won't even do the comparison (shocking I tell you, that media bias!).

Further, the real number is $175.6 billion, more than double the reported amount, and the cumulative year-to-date (calendar years) is $637.4 billion, or a run rate (annualized) of $1.912 trillion.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/uploads/2010/May/deficit.png

You can verify the debt numbers at the UST website - put in the daily beginning 1/1/10 throu 4/30/10:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

This is the real debt outstanding, including what was borrowed from Social security.

MasterBevo
05-13-2010, 08:14 PM
It's always been mute from one side, now it's simply moot.

We really need an emoticon for completely M bare assed. :)

yes... MOOT!

$2 Trillion a year people!!! :eek: J

Just how long does ANYONE think we can keep doing this?

At what point, do you start to wonder? Do they REALLY think this is the way to save the US? Or, are they trying to destroy us on purpose?

I really.. REALLY.. don't want to let my head go there. But, seriously... $2 TRILLION a year?? You HAVE to start wondering... :confused:

ZOOMBAG
05-13-2010, 10:30 PM
If the American people knew that April 2010 came in about a quarter-trillion dollars worse than both 2007 and 2008 with almost 40% less in tax collections, most of them would be appalled. Many more than are already doing so would be questioning what in the heck this administration and Congress are up to.

The AP wire report won't even do the comparison (shocking I tell you, that media bias!).

Further, the real number is $175.6 billion, more than double the reported amount, and the cumulative year-to-date (calendar years) is $637.4 billion, or a run rate (annualized) of $1.912 trillion.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/uploads/2010/May/deficit.png

You can verify the debt numbers at the UST website - put in the daily beginning 1/1/10 throu 4/30/10:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

This is the real debt outstanding, including what was borrowed from Social security.

Bottom line, we have no money and nowhere to get any more. The Chinese have made it clear to Europe, they will NOT buy enough bonds to float enough loans to bail them out. They will not buy our Treasury notes at current rates anymore.

When you cannot borrow any more you MUST live within your means or you DEFAULT. California WILL default, soon and all those gov't pensioners will not only get reduced benefits, they may get NO benefits.

We must reduce spending by at least 25%, across the board. We have to pay our debt because default will be the end of the global economy. That means Social Security will be slashed, Medicare, Medicade, and yes, the Military is going to undergo DRASTIC cuts, like it or not.
Again, if you depend on a gov;t check to eat, you WILL go hungry soon...

Blue Hen
05-14-2010, 08:03 AM
This includes Veterans disability compensation, I presume.....and even Civil Service retirement benefits ? How soon ?

tigercpa
05-14-2010, 11:53 AM
hmnn... news to me.


But, I DID hear that the US ran an $82 BILLION deficit.. in APRIL! You know, the month when we ALWAYS have a surplus?

Are ANY of you liberals paying attention to what's happening in Greece? Do you really believe, it CAN'T happen here??

Really??

Oh... but, we "don't get along well on issues like this"... so, don't bother answering... cowards

The problem is you have to break it down...billions and people lose interest...

Here it is in everyday numbers:

During the month of Apr 2010, our country spent more than it took in by $30,000 per second every second of the month.

Let that sink in a few seconds.

This is after all of the fed taxes you pay on SS, Medicare, payroll, pay, cell phones, cable charges, gasoline, liquor, agriculture....we still fell short of balancing our federal budget by $30,000 per second every.

:mad:

MasterBevo
05-14-2010, 01:06 PM
The problem is you have to break it down...billions and people lose interest...
:mad:

Or, you can try it this way:

Our goverment is currently BORROWING 40 cents of ever Dollar it spends.....

I feel like I'm surround by roosts, and the ckickens are coming home. :eek:

Hero1957
05-14-2010, 02:12 PM
This includes Veterans disability compensation, I presume.....and even Civil Service retirement benefits ? How soon ?

I sure wish I had a good answer for that question.

ZOOMBAG
05-14-2010, 03:29 PM
This includes Veterans disability compensation, I presume.....and even Civil Service retirement benefits ? How soon ?

Very soon, reality is coming home to roost. They call it "Austerity Measures" what that means is significant cuts for anyone drawing a government check for any reason.

Blue Hen
05-15-2010, 12:15 AM
In that case it looks like primal survival for me. Better start stocking up on the basic tools and supplies.

Hero1957
05-15-2010, 04:25 AM
In that case it looks like primal survival for me. Better start stocking up on the basic tools and supplies.

I think that is wise

MasterBevo
05-15-2010, 09:13 AM
In that case it looks like primal survival for me. Better start stocking up on the basic tools and supplies.

If we're wrong... what have you wasted?

If we're right.... you'll be VERY glad you did.