Big Blue & Big Red

[Blue Hen]

Before the impending slaughter of the Ivy League 'student'-athletes by the SEC hired athletes, a cute comparison from Frank Lopresti's USAToday column :

Ky has a freshman that can take over a game in 3 minutes (Wall)
Cornell has a freshman that solves the Rubik's Cube in 3 minutes(Chemerinski)

Ky averages 24,000+ at home games
Cornell's arena holds 4,443

Ky's Adolph Rupp built a dynasty
Cornell alum, Adolph Coors, built a brewery

Ky's arena is named after a basketball coach
Cornell's arena is named after an expert in industrial fuel oil marketing

Ky leans on freshmen since they are thinking 'NBA'
Cornell leans on Seniors since they are thinking graduation

Ky has won the SEC tournament 26 times
The Ivy league doesn't even play a conference tournament

As of 2009, 13 former Ky players owned NBA championship rings
As of 2009, 3 Cornell Alums owned professional sports franchises


Tickets for Kentucky/Cornell - $300 +
Cornell beating Kentucky - Priceless

[MasterBevo]

Tickets for Kentucky/Cornell - $160


If you can find a ticket for this game at $160, please buy ALL you can and send them to me ASAP.

My co-worker just paid $320, and he has lousy seats. :eek:


I see Cornell as a very dangerous team for Kentucky. The way the game is played today, if you can shoot 3-pointers well, you have a chance. Cornell has the THREE best shooters in the country. So... they have a chance.

But, what Kentucky does exceeding well is: Play defense, and rebound.

They'll be shooting those 3's with hands in their faces... and, they won't get many second chances if they miss.

I'll be very interested to see Calipari's strategy tonight. Will he change the lineup any? Press? I do know we'll see a lot of man-to-man D.

[MasterBevo]

How do you know its springtime in KY?




Cardinals are sitting on the fence…………
watching the CATS play………….

[MasterBevo]

Before the impending slaughter of the Ivy League 'student'-athletes by the SEC hired athletes, a cute comparison from Frank Lopresti's USAToday column :

Ky has a freshman that can take over a game in 3 minutes (Wall)
Cornell has a freshman that solves the Rubik's Cube in 3 minutes(Chemerinski)


Can Chemerinski dunk from a standing start? Just saying.... :D

[Blue Hen]

Thanks, Bevo. I edited it from face value to actual value.

[MasterBevo]

Thanks, Bevo. I edited it from face value to actual value.

If UK HAD to lose... I'd rather it be to Cornell than anybody..

But.. as it is.. If UK wins a title, I'm going to win >$1700 in pool money. :D

So... GO BIG BLUE!!!!

[Blue Hen]

Would those Kentucky players get more than 5 seconds worth of admissions consideration to an Ivy league school ? ...just saying....:-)

[MasterBevo]

http://www.aseaofblue.com/2010/3/25/1389566/kentucky-basketball-shameful-media

Here's a interesting read from a UK fan blog. I think the guy raises some interesting points. John Wall is embarked on a career path that is just as valid as Mr. Chemerinsky. Why is he being derided for having athletic rather than intellectual skills??

Here's a few quotes:

For some reason, many in the media have decided that Cornell represents everything that is good and pure about college athletics, and Kentucky represents everything that is wrong and detrimental. They have decided that this contest is about good versus evil, not about two sports teams competing against each other in a college tournament.


What I want to know is this -- since when did athletic achievement become inferior to academic achievement? When did this happen? Did I somehow miss the day, month, or year when America declared that academic excellence is a more praiseworthy or noble endeavor than athletic excellence? Did solving a Rubik's Cube become an Olympic sport without me noticing?


None of this is intended to belittle the hard work of the players for the Cornell Big Red, nor minimize their academic OR athletic achievements as somehow less praiseworthy than the primarily athletic achievements of the Kentucky players. We should be celebrating both equally -- or at the very least with respect instead of the abnegation of one in favor of the other. Achievement on the playing field is noble and admirable. Achievement in the classroom is no less, and no more so.

[Blue Hen]

Athletic achievement is perfectly fine but this is called 'college ' basketball and so many of these athletes in win-at-all-costs college football and basketball programs are in no imaginable way 'college' students. Therefore, their achievements under the desguise of 'college student-athletes' is total fraud. Cornell's players are not fraudulent . It's like........oh, let's say, the US Naval Academy team playing something like Florida.
So I agree with those that suggest that Cornell represents everything that is good about college sports and UK representing a 'winning at all costs' ideology of fraud.
Those athetically gifted KY players should be able to develop and pursue their sport , professionally, in an NBA minor league system.
Do you honestly believe that the main mission of NCAA intercollegiate sports is to develop professional athletes ?

[MasterBevo]

Do you honestly believe that the main mission of NCAA intercollegiate sports is to develop professional athletes ?

What % of the NCAA players go on to play in the NBA?

Patrick Patterson will be graduating in May... after his Junior year. And, next year... he WILL play in the NBA. UK, and basketball, have been terrific things for this fine young man. Much better than playing in an NBA minor league, which doesn't exist.

http://www.kentucky.com/2009/05/12/792601/college-keeps-patrick-patterson.html

You've changed my mind Hen... Now, I hope Kentucky blows them out by 50.

[MasterBevo]

WOW! What's with all the EMPTY seats in Salt Lake and Syracuse?? This is a Sweet 16 round game... fully 30+% of the seats are empty??

Hmnn... maybe the economy is NOT so great?? :confused:

[ZOOMBAG]

http://www.aseaofblue.com/2010/3/25/1389566/kentucky-basketball-shameful-media

Here's a interesting read from a UK fan blog. I think the guy raises some interesting points. John Wall is embarked on a career path that is just as valid as Mr. Chemerinsky. Why is he being derided for having athletic rather than intellectual skills??

Here's a few quotes:

Because it's "COLLEGE" basketball?????

[ZOOMBAG]

What % of the NCAA players go on to play in the NBA?

Patrick Patterson will be graduating in May... after his Junior year. And, next year... he WILL play in the NBA. UK, and basketball, have been terrific things for this fine young man. Much better than playing in an NBA minor league, which doesn't exist.

http://www.kentucky.com/2009/05/12/792601/college-keeps-patrick-patterson.html

You've changed my mind Hen... Now, I hope Kentucky blows them out by 50.
NBA has a minor league....it's called the CBA....

[Blue Hen]

Bevo, you obviously believe that NCAA intercollegiate sports should not necessarily be played by college students....just hired athletes wearing jerseys and logos of the sponsoring school. Some of us ( a minority of fans, for sure ) think 'college sports' should, indeed, have something to do with college . Anyway, we can respectifully disagree on the mission of college sports. I see your point.
Big time college football and basketball are becoming more semi-professional all the time, so that will certainly fit your comfort zone.....and that of most fans. But, I guess there will be a small portion of us that think it should be amatuer, in nature, as originally intended and an extra-curricular activity...not a full time job.
Anyway, you just about nailed how that game would play out in your prediction. I'm impressed.

[MasterBevo]

Hen,

You're right... I don't have a problem with NCAA Sports being a training ground for professional athletes. I believe, the campus environment is a better place for these young men (and women) than minor-league farm systems. Many ( I think, most..) of them are greatly helped by it. It may be the only time in their lives when they live in a "semi-normal" world. .. of course, some aren't helped at all. But, I don't think any system would help those kind.

That said, I DON'T like the current BBall system at all. I think, one year is simply TOO short to have any continuity. And, with only one year in school, the athletes don't even have to pretend to take any classes or accomplish anything academically. Believe me, I get that it's fake in football... but, even the requirement to have to TRY is better in football than in BBall. The one-and-out system is actually BAD for the game. And, it skews the system in favor of guys like Calipari... who are great recruiters.

As for the game.... I've seen Kentucky play that way all year. The two games where they lost, they just didn't start "trying" in time.... let it stay too close and then got jobbed by refs.

They are a really, really talented team. The tallest in the country. Very fast. They jump out of the building.. block shots, rebound aggressively, and hustle on defense. No team has made 50% of their shots against them all year. They will be, as they say, a "tough out" in this tourney.

You wanna know something scary? As dominant as Kentucky was last night? That was the worst night of shooting, and worst FT shooting I've seen Kentucky have ... maybe all year. :eek:

[Blue Hen]

Well certainly that's true. That's one case. That kid obviously chose the educational route to the NBA. There are far more that are 'forced' to be phony college students for a few years just to get a shot at pro sports. There should be a choice of career paths to the NFL and NBA shouldn't there ?

[Blue Hen]

..not just a bunch of big , fast, athletic kids playing street ball but very nicely coached. That defensive game plan was excellent and the Kentucky kids really executed it to perfection.


I agree, Bevo, that the campus environment, can be a positive environment for many of these kids, but so many are completely unprepared for post secondary education that it forces these fine universities to do sleazy, fraudulent things in compromising their 'standards' to accomodate these athletically gifted but often educationally and cerebrally challenged kids. Academic fraud is never good, IMO, so I'm not sure what the answer is. My answer would be massive NCAA initial eligibility reform that, in the short term would, unfortunately, prevent masses of kids from playing college sports......however, it would send a 'tough love' message that would help kids in the long term....'if you want to play college sports you better get academically prepared' . You raise standards and performance is eventually raised. It would also eliminate the need for academic fraud at these universities.

Anyway, it's interesting, that the viewpoints on academic integrity in this forum are pretty well related to the ideologies of our Alma Maters' sports programs. Most of you guys are from powerhouse FB programs in which winning championships trumps academic integrity. I can only think of two posters that are from schools that actually value academic integrity and 'standards' for football.....Zoombag ( AFA ) and B90 ( Furman ).

[MasterBevo]

Most of you guys are from powerhouse FB programs in which winning championships trumps academic integrity.

At Texas, they stress acedemic integrity in the Academics Programs... in the Athletic Programs? Not so much! :p

[Blue Hen]

According to the latest available NCAA adsmissions data, Texas scholarship FB recruits average a 948 SAT .....about 3rd best in the B12 but below the ACC and B10 average....so you don't really overly stress academic quality in the educational strength of kids you bring in, although Texas probably does suit up fewer really dumb kids that some of the other mega factories.

What you do with kids after admission is not an indicator of academic integrity. Anybody can assign an army of tutors, easy courses, and supervision- making sure they go to class to stay eligible.

No there's only about 8-10 FBS programs that 'really' require academic standards in their CF teams.

[MasterBevo]

BH... I'll save you the time; Our graduation rate is pretty abyssmal.

But... even as it is, the "academic standards" for football are about 1000% better than for Basketball.

My point though was: The academic standards at Texas are very high, for non-athletes.

[Blue Hen]

Oh, I agree. Texas is one of the great high standard public universities in the US.....which has nothing to do with standards for the scholarship fb players .



btw,a graduation rate is NOT an true indicator of academic integrity in big time college sports, IMO. It's more of an indicator of how fraudulent a school is willing to go to achieve a good grad rate for jocks, I'm not worried about the Texas grad rate. It might even show some honesty.
There are big time FB schools that recruit lots of real dumb kids and proceed to fraudulently keep them eligible and even issue them some kind of unearned degree.....and they walk out the door still reading on the 5th grade level....yet that program shows a decent grade rate. Very, very common....and very,very fraudulent.