756....what does everybody think ?

[Blue Hen]

Asterisk or no asterisk ???

[GatorGrad]

****************

[CJHawkeyes]

Admittedly, I still haven't figured out what the precise controversy is. Are people upset because steroids are unhealthy and users send a bad message when taking them breeds success? Or would taking any substance that produces the same effect be just as bad. For example, suppose there was a healthy alternative to steroids that produced the same effect, would its use be wrong?

Ultimately, Bonds is a difficult person to cheer for and the steroids controversy made his chase for history less than fun. It is still an amazing feat, but I also find it absurd how much of an impact a career record chase can have on a playoff race? ARod goes something like 0-22 after hitting 499 because the pressure to hit 500 is greater than just helping the Yankees pursuit of the Red Sox or a wildcard berth.

[GopherGuy]

Admittedly, I still haven't figured out what the precise controversy is. Are people upset because steroids are unhealthy and users send a bad message when taking them breeds success? Or would taking any substance that produces the same effect be just as bad. For example, suppose there was a healthy alternative to steroids that produced the same effect, would its use be wrong?

Ultimately, Bonds is a difficult person to cheer for and the steroids controversy made his chase for history less than fun. It is still an amazing feat, but I also find it absurd how much of an impact a career record chase can have on a playoff race? ARod goes something like 0-22 after hitting 499 because the pressure to hit 500 is greater than just helping the Yankees pursuit of the Red Sox or a wildcard berth.

Steroids are dangerous and illegal. If there was a safe product which was legal to buy that produced the effects of steroids without the terrible side effects, I don't think anyone would have a problem with someone using it - after all, everyone would have access to it. Weight training is a vital part of the lives of professional athletes today, but that is a fairly recent development. For a long time, players were actively discouraged from doing weight lifting. Eventually, as more and more athletes started to do it anyway, people realized that it gave a big advantage and since lifting weights is legal and has few negative side effects, everyone started to do it.

[CJHawkeyes]

Steroids are dangerous and illegal. If there was a safe product which was legal to buy that produced the effects of steroids without the terrible side effects, I don't think anyone would have a problem with someone using it - after all, everyone would have access to it. Weight training is a vital part of the lives of professional athletes today, but that is a fairly recent development. For a long time, players were actively discouraged from doing weight lifting. Eventually, as more and more athletes started to do it anyway, people realized that it gave a big advantage and since lifting weights is legal and has few negative side effects, everyone started to do it.

I'm not condoning steroid use. I just seem to get the impression that some people think steriods would be cheating even if they weren't dangerous and illegal.

[TommyTrojan]

Asterisk or no asterisk ???

No Asterisk for me.

[TommyTrojan]

Holy %^$&

757 had to be the furthest HR he's ever hit. He's 43, and he still may hit 30 homers, all the while sitting quite a bit. If he can be a DH nest year, he may, MAY make a push at 800.

[Hubbs]

but they do keep an injured player in the lineup (ask Ken Griffey Jr what happens when you dont juice). Bonds is a all time great with or without the the juice but he cheated to secure the record that Henry Arron fought for. Shame shame...

Babe Ruth to me is and always will be the greatest HR hitter. He played fewer games a year in his day and he would actually out-homer the rest of the league combined - dont see that these days. He could pitch too'

[Blue Hen]

I agree about Ruth. I think he has to be the greatest all around offensive force in the game's history and dominated his era moreso than Bonds or anyone else ever dominated theirs., and the Babe did it with performance dehancing substances. But, Barry Bonds is an athletic wonder..chemically powered or not. Has there ever been a quicker bat ?
BTW, Ruth never out homered the entire AL..........just some of the teams.

[Lincoln Tower]

In about 15-20 years, he'll be (thankfully) behind ARod and Pujols, so having an asterisk won't be a big deal.

Since many players have been juicing, it's hard to put an asterisk by just one players name. Shouldn't Ken Cameniti's MVP have an * too? The thing is, about 70% of baseball fans outside of SF will still consider Aaron the HR king, and that's probably more important.

Aaron's 715th came almost a decade before I was born, but I know Al Downing name, I can vivdly picture the fans on the field congratulating him, and can recite word for word the call by the announcer. I haven't heard a replay of Bonds' call and probably don't care.

Anyway, when ARod opts out his contract, I hope he goes to Philly or Coors Field so he can easily break the "new" record. Fans should be able to celebrate the all-time HR king, not mourn it.

[PSUFan]

No asterisk for me...because if you do it to this record then you have to do it to every record that has been set since the late 1980's.

Show me the concrete solid proof that this happened and then prove to me that it increased his Home Run ability.....afterall, you still have to see a 100 MPH fastball in order to hit it.

The hardest thing in sports to do is hit a fastball and steroids WILL NOT help your ability to do it.

[kocurt]

No asterisk for me...because if you do it to this record then you have to do it to every record that has been set since the late 1980's.

Show me the concrete solid proof that this happened and then prove to me that it increased his Home Run ability.....afterall, you still have to see a 100 MPH fastball in order to hit it.

The hardest thing in sports to do is hit a fastball and steroids WILL NOT help your ability to do it.


I have actually heard that one a few times. It is an absolute myth. Steroids WILL help you hit a fastball. A lot. Steroids affect ALL muscle fibres including the "fast twitch". Its why 13 FBI agents probed into the allegations that Holyfield had used (it has been since admited they cannot even begin to prove it) and Toney was suspended from boxing. In that sport, the added physical attributes can literally kill another human. Steroids is cheating. Records set, titles won, games won etc. all deserve an asterisk.

[PSUFan]

I have actually heard that one a few times. It is an absolute myth. Steroids WILL help you hit a fastball. A lot. Steroids affect ALL muscle fibres including the "fast twitch". Its why 13 FBI agents probed into the allegations that Holyfield had used (it has been since admited they cannot even begin to prove it) and Toney was suspended from boxing. In that sport, the added physical attributes can literally kill another human. Steroids is cheating. Records set, titles won, games won etc. all deserve an asterisk.

Wasn't aware that steroids can increase your eyesite and your hand eye coordination....you either have those attributes or you don't.

Let's just start putting asterisks on everything...why just stop at sports?

Everytime a person steps on another to get ahead in business...let's just label it cheating and slap and asterisk by his nameplate on their desk.

All this is turning into is a Witch Hunt because most people don't like Bonds...plain and simple....the forefathers of Salem Mass. are smiling right now.

Everyone just needs to get over themselves and move on.

[TommyTrojan]

No asterisk for me...because if you do it to this record then you have to do it to every record that has been set since the late 1980's.

Show me the concrete solid proof that this happened and then prove to me that it increased his Home Run ability.....afterall, you still have to see a 100 MPH fastball in order to hit it.

The hardest thing in sports to do is hit a fastball and steroids WILL NOT help your ability to do it.

Nobody knows when the steriod era began, or when it'll be over.

Is Ripken's games played streak in question because he played in the steriod era? If not...then why not? Because you dont THINK he took anything....so many issues. Too many to stat=rt putting an astersick by records.

I'd be more comfertible putting an * by Ruth's numbers since he didn't play in an intergrated league. That creates much more of an advantage than using roids.

[TommyTrojan]

Wasn't aware that steroids can increase your eyesite and your hand eye coordination....you either have those attributes or you don't.

Let's just start putting asterisks on everything...why just stop at sports?

Everytime a person steps on another to get ahead in business...let's just label it cheating and slap and asterisk by his nameplate on their desk.

All this is turning into is a Witch Hunt because most people don't like Bonds...plain and simple....the forefathers of Salem Mass. are smiling right now.

Everyone just needs to get over themselves and move on.

Speaking of eye sight, should a player that gets Lasik done have an * by their numbers? Did it enhance their performance? Certainly. Probably more than roids would.

[GopherGuy]

Nobody knows when the steriod era began, or when it'll be over.

Is Ripken's games played streak in question because he played in the steriod era? If not...then why not? Because you dont THINK he took anything....so many issues. Too many to stat=rt putting an astersick by records.

I'd be more comfertible putting an * by Ruth's numbers since he didn't play in an intergrated league. That creates much more of an advantage than using roids.

I have a problem with this argument that I see all of the time about Babe Ruth's numbers being tainted and I have a major problem with it. First of all, it's not his fault that MLB wasn't inclusive. On the other hand, Barry (allegedly) knowingly took illegal steroids to try to unfairly enhance his performance. Big Difference.

The way that you judge players from different eras is to compare them to their contemporaries. Say what you want about who was and wasn't allowed to pitch to the Babe, but all of the MLB hitters of that time got the same advantage that he did. Therefore, it's safe to assume that Ruth's numbers would have dwarfed the rest of baseball no matter who had been pitching.

[FLORIDA HERD FAN]

Of course Bonds took steroids.

Of course home run hitters who use steroids hit more home runs. There is a reason why they take steroids.

But, forget the asterisk. Bonds' name should not appear in the record book. Ditto for Mark McGuire.

[aufan59]

The most surprising thing about all of this is that people still pay attention to baseball.

[Hubbs]

I agree about Ruth. I think he has to be the greatest all around offensive force in the game's history and dominated his era moreso than Bonds or anyone else ever dominated theirs., and the Babe did it with performance dehancing substances. But, Barry Bonds is an athletic wonder..chemically powered or not. Has there ever been a quicker bat ?
BTW, Ruth never out homered the entire AL..........just some of the teams.

My bad must have got my facts crossed up. Thats still something you dont see.

[Blue Hen]

It's the thinking man's game...........which explains why you can't appreciate it.

[Blue Hen]

That's a really nice description, NCT. For those with little or no attention spans it's a boring game, but like you point out it's a "chess game"....but requiring split second decisions.............very cerebrally demanding.
USA Today featured a story/series a few years back entitled 'The Ten Most Difficult Tasks In Sports'.. It was fascinating. Hitting the major league fastball was deemed the single most difficult thing to do in all of sports. Scientists broke down the physics of it....a batter having 0.2 of second to pick up the pitch, gauge it's speed, location, movement......decide what to do with it (take/swing), and then time the swing to make solid contact bewteen the 2 round surfaces.....just about humanly impossible from a scientific analysis.

Do you like college baseball ? Another indicator of the cerebralness of baseball . Programs like Rice (NCAA champ a few years back) , Stanford and Vanderbilt, which feature intelligent kids, can compete for national championships. Can you imagine CF teams with entire rosters full of intelligent kids competing for national titles ? I can't....at least not in today's climate.

Now, the 'business' of MLB..........that's a mess !...but the game, itself, is beautiful.

[aufan59]

It's the thinking man's game...........which explains why you can't appreciate it.

It's obvious that I do more thinking than you. You must think that spending hours researching stats and posting them takes some deep though.

[Blue Hen]

In general, it seems like the non revenue sport college athletes are more cerebral. The NCAA admissions data published in 1998 for every school and sport tends to confirm this.

[Blue Hen]

So what are you doing up in the middle of the night, Aufan, besides deep thinking ?