Chrysler to lay off 13,000

[Rupturedduck]

think the American car industry as we know it is kaput,sad.

[Bucky]

The American car industry as WE KNEW IT, is kaput, you are correct. No longer will the big automakers in Detroit dominate the market, and the true winners are any American who purchases and uses an automobile.

Our government has protected the Big Three for way too long, and it is is finally catching up to the automakers in Detroit. It's a perfect example of governmental subsidities gone wrong. Eventually, not even the US Government, or any form of socialism, could make up for what was becoming a lackluster product. As a consumer, it would be hard to justify purchasing many American made cars over their foreign competitors. The "foreign" companies simply make a better product. Add to the fact that all the major foreign car companies now produce their vehicles with American labor and there really is no reason to dump your money into Ford or GM. The only area where "American" cars still have an advantage is the 4x4 department, but even that advantage is quickly eroding.

Aside from all this, it is not the end of the American automobile industry. The big three will simply have to adjust, and I believe that soon it will be the "Big 2" or even "Big 1". There is no reason to feel sorry for anybody in this situation. Markets change all the time without any tears being shed, and the Big Three, with help from socialistic policies in the US, enjoyed a near monopoly for decades. In the end, WE, the CONSUMERS, are the true winners. More compeition and free enterprise leads to better products and more innovation.

Instead of crying, we should be rejoicing. But the American media will portray the fading "Big Three" as a political and economic disaster, and will undoubtedly blame the Bush Administration in some form or another.

[mini_me]

think the American car industry as we know it is kaput,sad.

Sad? Who couldn't see this coming? Union's have completely and totally destroyed the Airline industry and now the US auto industry is going to be a thing of the past. GM has something on the order of $1400-$1700 priced into each car to cover worker benefits. Honda and Toyota's which are largely built here in the US, have something around $200.

Tough choice? A better car for less.... The workers union is to blame for this problem plain and simple.

[NCT]

The workers union is to blame for this problem plain and simple.


Yes, the unions overreached. But those contracts weren't unilateral. I think it's interesting that the consensus of posts on the topic so far blame organized labor or liberal-driven corporate bail-outs for the problem. Is there no way at all that some of the blame can be placed on somebody(ies) in high-level management who actually made the decisions regarding what to do with the direction of these companies? Or were they just pitiful victims of unions and government with no say at all (plain and simple) in their own destinies?

[Bucky]

Yes, the unions overreached. But those contracts weren't unilateral. I think it's interesting that the consensus of posts on the topic so far blame organized labor or liberal-driven corporate bail-outs for the problem. Is there no way at all that some of the blame can be placed on somebody(ies) in high-level management who actually made the decisions regarding what to do with the direction of these companies? Or were they just pitiful victims of unions and government with no say at all (plain and simple) in their own destinies?

A combination of both irresponsible governmental policies and failed corporate leadership. I wouldn't say "Republican" politcal action wasn't responsible either, although not to the extent of left wing influence. The real tradegy is that when politics gets involved in any economic situation, long term thinking is thrown out the window. The American politic system is all about short-term thinking, what will get me elected in next year's election. Just look at the Social Security debate. Everybody concedes that SS is headed for a crisis, but neither Republicans or Democrats have the guts to fix the problem before it becomes unfixable. Neither favors a long term solution over damaging their politcal standing with the current electorate.

[Scarlet Hayes]

I don't see where the govt has been "protecting" the Big 3. Yes, there were the bail-out loans of the early '80s; but Chrysler proudly paid all of it back--early to boot.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is tariffs. Don't the Japanese slap tariffs on our vehicles? And this notion that Japanese vehicles are somehow inherently better is a load of horse dung. I'm not saying that they're junk; but it's not like Americans are building garbage.

Now, I do agree that the UAW went beyond overboard. There's no debating that. And if some, or all, of the Big 3 die, they will be a MAJOR reason. But, on the flip side, to assume that we're also playing on an even playing field is naive. Free market capitalism is fantastic when we're all on the same field. If the Japs out-do us, so be it. But when are those tarriffs coming off?

America's WalMart shoppers will soon begin to realize that what they're doing in buying cheap Chinese made/slave made stuff (you'd be stupid not to buy the cheaper stuff. So I'm not blaming Joe 6 pack) is ironic when, unless we stem the tide, US companies start really "buying" cheaper labor from beyond our borders. It's a 2-way street, folks.

This is America. Our govt needs to put our borders and our companies first. America first (you know, the taxpayer. the people who put you political clowns into power). Demand fair trade policies. This isn't me letting the Big 3 and the UAW off the hook. They are also to blame. But let's at least be honest with ourselves.

[NCT]

Yes, I think it was probably pretty easy for the US automakers to make lots of concessions to labor during the first few decades after the war, because they were the only game in town (read "planet"). By the time actual competition came into the picture from overseas, labor's entitlements were too entrenched.

That's just from a casual observer.

[ZOOMBAG]

Yes, the unions overreached. But those contracts weren't unilateral. I think it's interesting that the consensus of posts on the topic so far blame organized labor or liberal-driven corporate bail-outs for the problem. Is there no way at all that some of the blame can be placed on somebody(ies) in high-level management who actually made the decisions regarding what to do with the direction of these companies? Or were they just pitiful victims of unions and government with no say at all (plain and simple) in their own destinies?

It was both, for sure. The Unions by holding to outdated pensions which were designed to support retirees who lived, on average, 18 months after retirement to today's 20+ years after retirement, along with wages that GROSSLY exceed fair market value for their skills, to engineers and management that had absolutely NO vision for what the consumer wanted. They basically were hold-overs from an age when the big 3 DICTATED what consumers "wanted". They never adjusted to having actual competition.

In the end, we, the consumer, BENIFIT from this collapse. The job losses, in terms of the national economy, are negligable, even though the liberal media will paint it otherwise, but the consumer will be rewarded with cheaper product of HIGHER quality. And that is what MARKET DRIVEN economies deliver as opposed to GOVERNMENT driven economies.

[Jim]

I heard that Chrysler is strongly considering moving plant(s) to China. So those that cheer and say "Glory Be!" and rejoycing are just suicidal morons. I also hear that India is now starting to train doctors and nurses back in India. I wonder where they're going to be "deployed"?