FSU and on-line courses.

[Don]

I have mixed feeling about this FSU case. The fact that 10 sports were involved supports the notion that this really isn't a "Bowden" problem but an "FSU" problem. Actually, I think it isn't really an "FSU" problem but a "National" problem. Yes, there were people who gave the answers to the students who were employees of FSU and the students were athletes. But, it is a situation that goes on every day in on-line courses nationwide. Personally I can't see why anyone would accept any degree that was obtained on-line. It is nearly impossible to police who is really answering the questions at the other end of the web.

I would like to see one of the athletes sue FSU and the NCAA over these penalties. The athletes might argue entrapment. The fact that an institute has on-line courses that the athletes are guided towards creates an atmosphere that invites cheating. Sort of like leaving your wife's diamond wedding ring on the sidewalk in front of your house everyday "invites" someone to walk off with it. Or, leaving an old refrigerator with the door still on it "invites" kids to accidentally kill themselves.

The bottom line is that ON-LINE courses are a BAD idea. Just like ON-LINE VOTING is a BAD idea! Don't most States have voting laws that prevent someone from accompanying you into the voting booth? So why can we have ON-LINE voting where God only knows who's with you as you vote or even that it is you voting?

[ZOOMBAG]

I have mixed feeling about this FSU case. The fact that 10 sports were involved supports the notion that this really isn't a "Bowden" problem but an "FSU" problem. Actually, I think it isn't really an "FSU" problem but a "National" problem. Yes, there were people who gave the answers to the students who were employees of FSU and the students were athletes. But, it is a situation that goes on every day in on-line courses nationwide. Personally I can't see why anyone would accept any degree that was obtained on-line. It is nearly impossible to police who is really answering the questions at the other end of the web.

I would like to see one of the athletes sue FSU and the NCAA over these penalties. The athletes might argue entrapment. The fact that an institute has on-line courses that the athletes are guided towards creates an atmosphere that invites cheating. Sort of like leaving your wife's diamond wedding ring on the sidewalk in front of your house everyday "invites" someone to walk off with it. Or, leaving an old refrigerator with the door still on it "invites" kids to accidentally kill themselves.

The bottom line is that ON-LINE courses are a BAD idea. Just like ON-LINE VOTING is a BAD idea! Don't most States have voting laws that prevent someone from accompanying you into the voting booth? So why can we have ON-LINE voting where God only knows who's with you as you vote or even that it is you voting?

All of this after the University supposedly put large swaths of the Athletic Department's operations under the control of the general University's control? Of all the major football factories I had thought FSU had chosen to clamp down more than most on abuse, but apparently not?

[Blue Hen]

True story, Don. These on-Line courses are very common...Nationally and are widely used to make and keep phony student-athletes eligible for sports. This form of academic fraud is common for FB and hoops players...generally the most cerebrally challenged groups of college athletes. In the excellent recruiting book 'MEAT MARKET', there is an account of a high school offensive lineman in Mississippi ( that could bench press bunches of pounds and pancake defenders) becoming eligible for SEC teams to recruit by taking and passing these 'on-line' courses......which of course were actually taken by his personal tutor. This kid was mentally retarded and in the 'Special Ed' program at his school. This is not uncommon. I hate to sound disrespectful to JIm Valvano but he recruited 'Special Ed' kids to play at NC State as documented in a Murray Sperber book....'COLLEGE SPORTS INCORPORATED'. This blatent fraud is allowed because the NCAA is in the sports business and cares nothing...NOTHING !....about academic integrity. It's members refuse to police themselves.

[jeff4bucks]

This situation at FSU happened across 10 sports-including non-renvenue sports like women's swimming, track and golf, not just FB and basketball. I don't think they make the kind of concessions for those athletes. Online courses aren't just given to the dumbth guys...

[Don]

The point was that it isn't JUST athletes! On-line courses themselves create the atmosphere of cheating. I don't trust ANY course that is given on-line. I'm not saying that everyone that takes on-line course is cheating but that one can't tell the cheaters from the non-cheaters and there are enough cheaters as to make the system worthless. Why not just give group in-class tests where if one person in the class knows the answer then everyone gets credit? Isn't that a great idea? Believe it or not my older brother had a class that did this. He also had a class where the "instructor" (or should I say the a-hole in charge) scrolled the answers to the final exam on an overhead projector during the exam.

The difference is that IF the athletes in question had done this in their dorm rooms with the aid other dorm members instead of having an athletic department employee help then FSU wouldn't be in trouble. That way they would get help that wasn't readily available to other students.

[NCT]

This situation at FSU happened across 10 sports-including non-renvenue sports like women's swimming, track and golf, not just FB and basketball. I don't think they make the kind of concessions for those athletes. Online courses aren't just given to the dumbth guys...

That's the thing I don't get: women's swimming? At UGA, our women's swimming team has been in the hunt for the NCAA title more often than not (and has won a few), and there are always ultra-smart girls on the team -- many of the kind that could have gotten (and some did get) full-ride academic scholarships. On the "dumbth" scale, in my experience, swimming and diving has traditionally been on the non-dumb end of the scale, along with golf and tennis. I reckon it's because those sports typically coincide with demographics that increase the likelihood that the kids' backgrounds involve an established emphasis on education. That is, if you can afford to get really good at swimming, golf, and tennis, there's a decent chance there's decent education in your family.

[jeff4bucks]

Thats exactly right NCT, and, because many, if not most fb and bb kids don't come from the same background as golfers, tennis players, and other country club sports, the NCAA considers factors such as race and socio-economic backgrounds when admitting athletes to their schools.

Hen-
Online courses are available to the general student body.
Murray Sperber is decent and makes some valid points, but he should be taken in the right context. He is an arrogant, academic snob who dislikes major college sports and undergraduates at those schools and he takes shots in his books at every opportunity. If he's so critical of Big State U's, then why did he teach at one for 20 years? (Indiana). He should have taught at a Dartmouth or Oberlin type place.

[tigercpa]

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2009/03/10/nice-guys-dont-get-a-pass-not-even-bowden/


Can a coach know everything and be at all places at all times? No. But that goes with the job. And let’s face it, FSU has had its share of players run afoul under Bowden. The man has had a great career and I certainly won’t put him in the low rent class of Lou Holtz and Jackie Sherrill. But he’s also built his record in part by being soft on crime, having players run steps rather than miss games of significance or be kicked off the team. Sorry. This happened on his watch. His watch, his players, his program. His punishment. He may just have to settle for second place on the all-time wins list. Hat or no hat.

[Blue Hen]

True, on-line courses are standard everywhere. The difference in using such courses to keep dumb jocks eligible is the tutors and academic support take the on-line tests for the dumb jocks.