For Hen and his incessant harping...

[Don]

I've excerpted 2 paragraph from an article by Andy Staples for CNN/SI
"...Those data complement the findings of a trio of economists who, in 2005, designed a model to predict the college choices of sought-after recruits. The model created by Mike DuMond, Allen Lynch and Jennifer Platania -- rabid college football fans who met while Ph D. candidates at Florida State -- found that among heavily recruited players choosing from among only BCS-conference schools, distance from home is the most important factor in a recruit's choice. The model was published in the February 2008 issue of The Journal of Sports Economics.

****The model found that a school's academic standing -- whether it's in the top 50 of the US News and World Report rankings -- provides a miniscule bump.**** So does the final poll ranking of the school the previous season. What didn't matter to players shocked the economists more. According to the data, the players weren't, on the whole, worried about the depth chart, how many national titles schools had won or how many players the school put in the NFL....."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andy_staples/01/20/recruiting/index.html

[CJHawkeyes]

What is Hen's argument?

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

This info has convinced me that Coach 3 must be dancing with glee now that a certain Gold-medal winning coach has taken a collection of teenagers who come from afar seeking a hoops haven and a worthwhile education to the top of college basketball again. They may not be the team most likely to win the natl title but they are #1 from sea to shining sea not only this week but also since 1984 according to ESPN's program rankings over the past 25 years.

I posted a month ago that distance will be an increasingly important factor in one's selection of school as families are cutting their expenses. No tax cut, bailout or stimulus package will change that. Factors not listed but must be determining factors are the head coach and a program's prestige.

[Blue Hen]

What's the relevance of all that to my' harping' ?

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Doc is just trying to come to terms with the fact that no player selects Ohio State for any academic reason and how the Michigan scholarship football player has better academic credentials than the general body members at Ohio State.

[HellYeahHokie]

Actually, it's Don, not Doc. And he's another Florida fan, tired of BH bashing the Gators

[GatorGrad]

I think Don's point is that proximity plays a large role in where kids choose to attend college. A lot of talented kids come out of the state of Florida. If these kids want to stay close to home, then going to a school like UF makes a lot of sense. This is one of the major factors that Urban Meyer is on record for saying why he came to UF - recruiting is just much easier as you don't even have to leave the state to build a solid recruiting class whereas Notre Dame requires national recruiting, more time on the road, etc.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Oh, and Doc and Coach3 are probably tired of these types of posts from me.

[Blue Hen]

Well, that's common knowledge. I'm not sure that's his intended point however..Don ????

[Don]

Well, that's common knowledge. I'm not sure that's his intended point however..Don ????


Florida produced more BCS level players than any other state. Have you looked at the SAT scores of student athletes by state average. UF gets most of its recruits from Florida. Please show me that the other schools are getting the "smart" Florida high school players and that UF is getting the "dumb" ones. Then, then I will agree with you.

Here are some fact about the state of Florida.
♦ 50th in per capita funding for higher education
♦ 49th in all education funding per capita
♦ 41st in state health rankings
♦ 49th in percent covered by health insurance
♦ 46th in Medicaid spending per child
♦ 2nd highest percentage of uninsured children

[Blue Hen]

That's all nice and interesting, Don, and I'm aware that public education is not a high priority down there but you must have me mixed up with someone else who you thought said "other schools are getting the smart ones" because I don't recall saying that. Show me if I did. Anyway....

Related to your point ( I think ) : I understand there there is a large pool of talented, speedy but dumbish athletes in proximity to Gainsville but there are bright HS players in Florida too and dumb HS players in Pennsylvania and bright and dumb guys everywhere else. It's the individual program's choice as to what type of kids it wants to represent the university on the athletic fields. And Florida has chosen academic bottom feeders.....the weakest in the whole SEC. UF coaches have the choice to, perhaps, recruit a CB who has good cerebral and academic credentials but might be a 4.6 40 kid but it will take the much dumber 4.35 kid every time. Meyer wants to build the fastest team in America. Makes no difference what grade level his recruits might be reading on of if they can even talk. It's winning at all costs...academic integrity costs.
Other programs might feel more pride and comfort in taking the 4.6 CB who might be a candidate for a 'real' college major and who can speak coherently, read on the college level and represent the university well in that manner. Really ,there's a plethora of choices out there in college football ( from the Stanfords to the Floridas) as far as admissions standards go...and, also, a choice among CF fans as to what kind of student-athletes make them the proudest.
Appreciate you and GG discussing the academic side of this sport with me and its relationship to winning. BTW, several academic all american hall of famers...a very elite honor, have played at UF.

[GatorGrad]

You are right - it is our choice to lower our academic standards for athletes in order to compete. The NCAA allows us to make that choice. Most of the schools that we compete with for recruits down here such as LSU, FSU, Miami, Georgia, Tennessee, Clemson, Auburn, Alabama, etc fall in that same category. There is no doubt that having a winning football tradition brings many positives to the school, including the academic side. Obviously, a lot of these schools have decided that the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to lowering their academic standards in exchange for competing in football. That doesn't mean that they are cheating or that their fans should be ashamed.

[HellYeahHokie]

The year after Micheal Vick led the Hokies to a BCS Championship game, the SAT scores for the incoming freshmen class of the following year jumped something like 5%.

Clearly, Mr. Vick was not recruited for his academic potential (VT doesn't have a dog fighting major.). VT's athletic accomplishments over the last 10 years (in all sports now, not just FB) has increased the SAT scores of the general student body.

So, if you can raise the academic standards of 30,000 students on average, by lowering them for about 80...seems to be a smart trade-off

[GatorGrad]

I agree, HYH.

[Don]

That's all nice and interesting, Don, and I'm aware that public education is not a high priority down there but you must have me mixed up with someone else who you thought said "other schools are getting the smart ones" because I don't recall saying that. Show me if I did. Anyway....

Related to your point ( I think ) : I understand there there is a large pool of talented, speedy but dumbish athletes in proximity to Gainsville but there are bright HS players in Florida too and dumb HS players in Pennsylvania and bright and dumb guys everywhere else. It's the individual program's choice as to what type of kids it wants to represent the university on the athletic fields. And Florida has chosen academic bottom feeders.....the weakest in the whole SEC. UF coaches have the choice to, perhaps, recruit a CB who has good cerebral and academic credentials but might be a 4.6 40 kid but it will take the much dumber 4.35 kid every time. Meyer wants to build the fastest team in America. Makes no difference what grade level his recruits might be reading on of if they can even talk. It's winning at all costs...academic integrity costs.
Other programs might feel more pride and comfort in taking the 4.6 CB who might be a candidate for a 'real' college major and who can speak coherently, read on the college level and represent the university well in that manner. Really ,there's a plethora of choices out there in college football ( from the Stanfords to the Floridas) as far as admissions standards go...and, also, a choice among CF fans as to what kind of student-athletes make them the proudest.
Appreciate you and GG discussing the academic side of this sport with me and its relationship to winning. BTW, several academic all american hall of famers...a very elite honor, have played at UF.

If there is a pool of "bright" players in Florida and UF is NOT getting them then who the *$#@ is getting them?? Where are they?? IF UF the cherry-picking the "dumb" ones then the pool of "bright" players must be going elsewhere! That's why I ask you to show me the schools that are getting the "bright" players from Florida!

Another thing, you keep trumpeting the wonders of the lower divisions for their playoffs and slam DIA schools because of their admission standards yet those same lower division schools have LOWER admission standards than DIA. How in good conscience can you enjoy watching such dumb players?

[jeff4bucks]

i was actually going to mention that about the lower divisions...I think Hen is more interested in the competitiveness of the games and more level playing field than D1A, not the academic where-with-all of the athletes....

[Blue Hen]

You're wrong, Don, about lower divisions having lower standards...at least overall. NCAA shows the FCS SAT average to be 962 ....about 20 points higher than FBS.
Where do the brighter Sunshine State kids go ? Well, based on 08 rosters you'll find 8 playing ball at the Air Force Academy, 6 at Vanderbilt, 7 at Boston College, 10 at Ga Tech, 26 at Wake Forest, 10 at Duke, 9 at Notre Dame, 20 at the US Military Academy, 9 at the US Naval Academy, 4 at Northwestern and 7 at Stanford. There is larger pool of Florida talent out there that can read, write and talk than you think. There are also bright Floridians at UF, MIA, FSU and the other State FBS programs.

[Don]

You're wrong, Don, about lower divisions having lower standards...at least overall. NCAA shows the FCS SAT average to be 962 ....about 20 points higher than FBS.
Where do the brighter Sunshine State kids go ? Well, based on 08 rosters you'll find 8 playing ball at the Air Force Academy, 6 at Vanderbilt, 7 at Boston College, 10 at Ga Tech, 26 at Wake Forest, 10 at Duke, 9 at Notre Dame, 20 at the US Military Academy, 9 at the US Naval Academy, 4 at Northwestern and 7 at Stanford. There is larger pool of Florida talent out there that can read, write and talk than you think. There are also bright Floridians at UF, MIA, FSU and the other State FBS programs.


#1) The state of Florida produced 961 recruits that went just to BCS conferences between 04 and 08 (if 03 is included that goes up to 1200). The totals are much higher when all conferences are included. You found 75 (~6%) that the 1200 that went to BCS conferences.

#2) What are their SAT scores? Just because the team average is higher than UF's doesn't mean every player is above 890. Show me how many of those 75 recruits are above 890.

[Blue Hen]

There are no individual #s out there for players only team averages. Surely , you're not suggesting that Stanford, Duke and the Service Academies are suiting up 890 range Sunshiners. There are bright FB players from Florida.

[HellYeahHokie]

There are some kids playing football in DivIII who are a dumb as a post. Should they be allowed to play at those schools?

[Blue Hen]

No, IMO. Academic fraud is everywhere

[ZOOMBAG]

Academic fraud is not restricted to the football factories. Some of the lowest average SAT scores are found at nonBCS schools, like Fresno St, much of the Sun Belt, etc...

The competitiveness issue comes from the schools classified at the same level by the governing body, play under two separate set of post season qualification rules which grotesquely skews the long term competitive balance

[Blue Hen]

In addition to Fresno St, you have Louisville, ECU, Marshall, La Tech & most of the Sun Belts,, and remember when Georgia Southern was winning those D1AA national championships ???.....831 team SAT ave., 15 ACT average.