guns, guns, guns, guns, guns !!!!

[Blue Hen]

Not good that such a mentally deranged society as ours has such easy access to guns. I despise the NRA and gun lobby and the 'pro' gun politicians that take that stand(for votes). The second amendment stinks......and I'm a sportsman and gun owner ( rifles and shotguns ). I'd gladly give 'em up if we could eliminate this sick-o gun culture.....and combine the gun gluttony with these video games that are basically instructional in how to commit mass murder.......of course stuff like this will happen.

just my angry opinion, boys

[Scarlet Hayes]

the irony may be that it was the lack of guns (at VT) that helped the numbers mount.

One of the things that I just cannot comprehend is how some smart people (politicians) actually believe that restrictive gun laws somehow make us safe. When, in reality, all these laws do is make the law-abiding easier targets.

Now there are no gurantees that students being allowed to pack would've automatically reduced the carnage. But it sure couldn't have hurt. I've heard this mentioned before: ya know what the police's main job is when coming upon a scene like this? Securing the area; going after the bad guy; and then drawing a chalk outline around your dead body. i.e. only those on the scene have a realistic chance to put an end to it.

this nation has been loaded with guns since its inception. I dont think we have a gun problem. I think we have a problem with moral depravity. The value of life has been cheapened drastically within the last few generations. JMO anyway.

[Don]

the irony may be that it was the lack of guns (at VT) that helped the numbers mount.

One of the things that I just cannot comprehend is how some smart people (politicians) actually believe that restrictive gun laws somehow make us safe. When, in reality, all these laws do is make the law-abiding easier targets.


IT WAS A CLASSROOM SETTING!!! What do want everyone to come to class packing semi-automatic hand guns just in case some nut-job decides to go over the edge?

[ZOOMBAG]

I'd have no problem with that. An armed society is a polite society.

[ZOOMBAG]

This country will always be an armed country. It is at the core of our psyche as a people. It is an integral part of our pioneering past and an integral part of how we were able to come to be.

I know fully well no unwanted intruder will ever come into my home while I am there and leave alive. I keep loaded guns in my home and my car and know how to use then and have the demonstrated will to use them and no moral compunction to not use them. And, that my friend, is the AMERICAN way.

[JamesHowell]

Leave it to the left to attempt to use a personal tragedy for political advantage.

[JamesHowell]

I don't see the left saying we should do away with free speech because of Imus.

[EvilVodka]

The value of life has been cheapened drastically within the last few generations. JMO anyway.

This is something I strongly agree with...especially within the last 10 years

[EvilVodka]

This country will always be an armed country. It is at the core of our psyche as a people. It is an integral part of our pioneering past and an integral part of how we were able to come to be.

I know fully well no unwanted intruder will ever come into my home while I am there and leave alive. I keep loaded guns in my home and my car and know how to use then and have the demonstrated will to use them and no moral compunction to not use them. And, that my friend, is the AMERICAN way.

ya, but you're nuts

[EvilVodka]

Leave it to the left to attempt to use a personal tragedy for political advantage.

I don't think hokiehen is particularly left...and I think you can have a valid opinion on this issue without being labeled "right or left"

[ZOOMBAG]

No, you cannot. The individual, as a whole, may not be easy to label left or right, but his view is very hard LEFT view on this particular topic.

I am very pro gun, very much for a powerful defense, big on tax cuts, especially for corporations. Those are hard right views.

But I am also staunchly pro choice, very secular in the church-state debate, and very much for "amnesty" type policies for illegal immigrants, all pretty hard-left view points.

So what does that make someone like me, overall? Besides unelectable in this day and age.

[Don]

I don't see the left saying we should do away with free speech because of Imus.

How in heaven can you equate the two? A stupid comment = 32 killed????!!!

[JamesHowell]

> How in heaven can you equate the two?

They are both calls to eliminate constitution rights for all because of the actions of an individual.

[ZOOMBAG]

Because it is PRECISELY the same. Both deal with the Bill of Rights, which are fundamental and inviolate. We will have private gun ownership in this country no matter how many lunatics go on a killing spree. It's part of what we are as a people and what makes us different from most others in the world....and BETTER, as well.

And yes you communist/socialist...we are BETTER than everyone else in the world...always have been and will continue to be unless we lose ourselves in the soft underbelly of social liberalism as western Europe has.

[Bucky]

Not good that such a mentally deranged society as ours has such easy access to guns. I despise the NRA and gun lobby and the 'pro' gun politicians that take that stand(for votes). The second amendment stinks......and I'm a sportsman and gun owner ( rifles and shotguns ). I'd gladly give 'em up if we could eliminate this sick-o gun culture.....and combine the gun gluttony with these video games that are basically instructional in how to commit mass murder.......of course stuff like this will happen.

just my angry opinion, boys

Please, come down from your liberal soapbox. It's comical how liberals can politicize any topic, but after 9/11 if any Republican dare use the words "9/11" they were insenitive and vicious people taking political advantage of those killed.


It takes a lot of ignorance to believe that murders by shootings would be eliminated by gun control laws. The same people must believe that crack heads have no access to illegal drugs and therefore we are a safer society.

Regardless of the laws, this crazed lunatic would have found a way to get his hand on a gun and the story would be no different.....I have had enough of the main stream media getting on their liberal microphones and proclaiming that somehow the current gun laws are responsible for the hellacious day in Virginia.

[Blue Hen]

You're obviously not aware of the murder rates in countries with very strict gun control laws relative to ours. Those rates are a fraction of our's. It makes a huge difference.

[Scarlet Hayes]

IT WAS A CLASSROOM SETTING!!! What do want everyone to come to class packing semi-automatic hand guns just in case some nut-job decides to go over the edge?


No. In fact, the idea of a bunch of 18--22 year olds packing heat is a little unsettling--even to me. But, Don, I will say this: Just the threat of conceal/carry is often enough to deter some criminals. Also, even if conceal/carry was allowed on campus, you're only going to have a small percentage packing. But yesterday we could've used just one guy packing. Maybe he saves a few lives. maybe not. But my main gist is that gun laws just make law-abiding people easier targets.

Don I'm open to workable solutions. I heard a guy mention that plain-clothesed cops (packing heat of course) on campus would likely have the same affect as allowing conceal/carry. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[ZOOMBAG]

Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with gun laws and everything to do with the country's historical culture and heritage. America is a land of self-reliant, rugged individuals who had to protect themselves because, in most cases, there was NO government throughout much of the land for much of it's history.

And at the end of the day, as we have seen from Katrina, the riots in LA and Detroit in the 1960's and again in LA again in the 1990s, and things like this, the government is not going to protect you from anything, ever. YOU are responsible for protecting you, no one else is or will.

And as I stated earlier, you step into my home uninvited, you will not leave it alive.

[Blue Hen]

The best way for our government to protesct us, Zoom, is the removal of all hand guns and military assualt type weapons from the citizenry...........no manufacturing, selling, or owning.....nothing. Of course, that's probably unrealistic but civilized countries that have that ideology have only a tiny fraction of the murders that 'gun obsessed' USA does. And, Zoom, that "rugged, self-reliant individual " crap...c'mon, that's baloney. It's 2007, not 1750 on the frontier.

[Blue Hen]

sounds like he can't wait to start shoot'n.. ;-)

[JamesHowell]

> The best way for our government to protesct us, Zoom, is the removal of all hand guns

The intent and sole reason for the 2nd amendment was to allow the people to protect themselves from the government.

[HellYeahHokie]

Leave it to the left to attempt to use a personal tragedy for political advantage.

Both the left and the right lined up to exploit this tragedy James. You know it too.

And I'm not interested in the gun debate currently, but if anyone thinks that the knowledge of a students carrying concealed weapons would have deterred this lunatic, they are fooling themselves. Maybe people packing heat could deter some everyday thug from robbing a convenience store, but a deranged lunatic like this is not going to be deterred by any notion that people could fire back. Just like the death penalty doesn't deter people who commit the type of murders worthy of the death penalty, concealed weapons laws aren't going to deter these types of events. People with sick brains aren't going care about consequences.

[Don]

It takes a lot of ignorance to believe that murders by shootings would be eliminated by gun control laws. The same people must believe that crack heads have no access to illegal drugs and therefore we are a safer society.


By that logic only an idiot would think that creating the tangled web called Homeland Security would eliminate terrorism.

[ZOOMBAG]

Not according to statistics I am reading. Great Britain and Australia have significant higher violent crime rates than we do. They don't have these mass killings but murders, armed robberies and armed assaults per 1000 citizens is higher in both the UK and Australia than here and they have MUCH tougher gun laws.

If even one dead kid was packing at VT there was a pretty good chance the body count would have been much lower.

Protect YOURSELF. It is obvious you and your home are a very EASY target for a violent criminal.

[FLORIDA HERD FAN]

I have yet to see any effort by those who oppose the right of individuals to own guns to introduce a constitutional amendment to repeal the second amendment -- just as the 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment (prohibition).

Thus far, anti-gun laws have proved to be an abysmal failure (ex. Washington, D.C. and the Virginia Tech campus).

[Blue Hen]

..and you won't. It's political death to question our guns obsession.

[Blue Hen]

Thanks for the protection warning , Zoom.......but I probably have more guns in my home than you do...........not to mention that I have actually been shot with guns and have shot guns to kill people...'real' stuff...not this 'rugged individual, John Wayne bravado , gun pack'n' , tough talking' fantasy stuff.

If I get time I'm going to research the actual numbers of murder rates in countries with tough gun control laws vs the USA's 'Guns for everybody' ideology. Maybe you're right...we'll see.

[mini_me]

Not good that such a mentally deranged society as ours has such easy access to guns. I despise the NRA and gun lobby and the 'pro' gun politicians that take that stand(for votes). The second amendment stinks......and I'm a sportsman and gun owner ( rifles and shotguns ). I'd gladly give 'em up if we could eliminate this sick-o gun culture.....and combine the gun gluttony with these video games that are basically instructional in how to commit mass murder.......of course stuff like this will happen.

just my angry opinion, boys

I think your opinion stinks. WTF??? The second amendment stinks????

Its just the kind of thinking that liberals have.... get rid of the right to bear arms and all our problems with guns will go away.... What planet do YOU live on? Sicko's and criminals will STILL have the guns doing exactly what they have been doing for the last 5000 years.

It never ceases to amaze me how ANYONE can believe that by getting guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens that somehow solves the "gun" problem.
WAKE UP PEOPLE its not the gun the commits the crime, its the CRIMINAL. Making ownership of a gun illegal accomplishes absolutely NOTHING except for creating a black market for guns and ammunition. You are VERY very naive if you think that is going to solve squat.

[EvilVodka]

If even one dead kid was packing at VT there was a pretty good chance the body count would have been much lower.


ya right, I'm betting that wouldn't have changed a thing, because no one saw this coming...

[Scarlet Hayes]

mini, I just heard Michael Eisner (disney dude) describe people that oppose sweeping gun bans as imbeciles. Unbelivable. I mean a kindergarten age child can see that IF YOU BAN WEAPONS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE THEM ARE THE BAD GUYS. why is this so efffffing hard for a large chunk of this country to see?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? We're not splitting atoms here. this isn't that tough. My gosh, how many times do i have to see a report about how "easy it was for Cho to get a gun." Yet, the same people don't acknowledge the BAN ON CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON, on VT's campus, as maybe playing a part here as well! hello....McFly....anyone home????

Now guys like Bluehen have all my respect and gratitude for their service. Bluehen knows what he speaks of. this stuff isn't romantic adventure. this is ugly stuff. But, until the govt says that every weapon on the face of the earth has been eliminated (and the ability to make them as well), I'm standing by the 2nd amendment. FWIW, I'm sure Zoom grasps the reality of guns as well. it's not like he's an 18 year old punk. Zoom's a big boy; he's been around the block.

[Don]

I think your opinion stinks. WTF??? The second amendment stinks????

Its just the kind of thinking that liberals have.... get rid of the right to bear arms and all our problems with guns will go away.... What planet do YOU live on? Sicko's and criminals will STILL have the guns doing exactly what they have been doing for the last 5000 years.

It never ceases to amaze me how ANYONE can believe that by getting guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens that somehow solves the "gun" problem.
WAKE UP PEOPLE its not the gun the commits the crime, its the CRIMINAL. Making ownership of a gun illegal accomplishes absolutely NOTHING except for creating a black market for guns and ammunition. You are VERY very naive if you think that is going to solve squat.


First, the cops DID have guns! Did it do ANYONE any good? They stood outside while the idiot with the guns shot everyone inside. The video had at least 27 audible shoots while the police were outside hiding behind trees. Having guns is not equal to stopping the killings.


Second, why do you think the military confiscates all weapons in the barracks? Every army knows that putting armed soldiers in a confined space leads quickly to not having an army as they would kill each other.


Third, there are terrorist working to smuggle nuclear bombs into this country. Are you advocating the position that all citizens should get nuclear weapons to protect themselves under the 2nd amendment? Otherwise only the bad-guys will have nuclear weapons. Your line of arguement is just stupid.

[HellYeahHokie]

I have yet to see any effort by those who oppose the right of individuals to own guns to introduce a constitutional amendment to repeal the second amendment -- just as the 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment (prohibition).

Thus far, anti-gun laws have proved to be an abysmal failure (ex. Washington, D.C. and the Virginia Tech campus).

No one will, because its a stupid idea. Only the most extreme lefties would suggest something like that. Certainly, nothing in the Bill of Rights will EVER be repealed, and it shouldn't be.

But you don't need to repeal the 2nd Amendment to have sensible gun laws. The 2nd Amendment protects the right for citizen's to own guns, but I don't think that gives them the right to own SAMs, bombs, gernades, armor-piercing bullets, plastic guns that can't be detected in X-ray machines, etc. Just like the right to free speech does have restrictions, so should the 2nd amendment. If the extremests on the left weren't trying to ban all guns, and the extremists on the right weren't trying to allow people to own guns without restrictions, we might actually be able to find a nice middle ground.

But that's not how things work in this country much anymore.

[HellYeahHokie]

This from a study by Philip Alpers of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center:
.
.
.

That was quick. I know nothing of Alpers's methods, and I'm not spending the time right now to dig up numbers for gun violence, generally (and not just deaths). So take the info as you will.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

I will take the info for what it is. More proof that Zoombag either makes stuff up to support his arguement, or completely skews reality. He's trying to equate burgleries and other crimes, to murder. This is nothing new on this forum.

Here's another website showing International murder rates (not just gun related). Surprise, surprise, the United States murder rate is 3 times that of Australia and the UK. (but lord, it sucks to be a Columbian). If you looke at other statistics, the UK and Australia might have an edge in things like burglaries, which could be shoplifting.

And when you look at murders by handguns, the ratio/per captia in the United States is embarrassing for a developed country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[BigTiger72]

IT WAS A CLASSROOM SETTING!!! What do want everyone to come to class packing semi-automatic hand guns just in case some nut-job decides to go over the edge?


YES THE STUDENTS SHOULD BE ARMED.

AND BLUE HEN, AS MUCH AS I LOVE YOUR FOOTBALL POST , YOU ARE WRONG.

THE ONLY INDIVIDUALS EVER WILLING TO GIVE UP THEIR GUNS ARE THOSE WITHIN THE LAW. WHICH ONLY LEAVE THE CRIMINALS WITH GUNS. THAT IS FOOLISH. IN A PERFECT SOCIETY, I WISH IT WOULD WORK....BUT, here in the U.S. or ANY WHERE ELSE ON THIS PLANET. THOSE WHO HAVE THE GUNS CONTROL SOCIETY. PERIOD. :( :( :(

[Blue Hen]

....actually , I'm looking at it in a complete different manner. Ideally, the only segment that would require hand guns and military weapons would be law enforcement people and the military. I'm talking cold turkey, complete elimination of these things....

No ownership of these weapons allowed. Any Citizen caught with one is imprisoned.
No handgun/assault gun sales
No mile long handgun/assault weapon magazine racks
No instructional videos on killing with these things
No importing of these things
No gunstores ( sporting/hunting arms sold and regulated through a new Federal agency)
No 2nd Amendment
A complete purge !!!

The only way an evil individual or mentally deranged individual could get hold of these things would be to steal them from law enforcement or the military..or manufacture them..........both bringing severe punitive consequences...like death...and, of course all this is contingent on completely sealing our borders.

I know..........pretty unrealistic.

A human mind is pretty fragile. With a 300 Million population lots of minds are going to quit working and go nutso, annually, in this country and with everybody packing these easy killing tools or having easy and quick access to 'em...well our very high world murder rate continues right along.
So I'm looking at these things like I look at Aids or Cancer...a desease that needs complete elimination.

[Blue Hen]

Thanks...........very common knowledge, NCT. In 'thinking' countries that don't want a glutony of hand guns among its population the murder rates are a fraction of that of 'gun obsessed 'USA....common knowledge. I think most studies would yield similar results.

[Blue Hen]

thank you HYH. Common knowledge...........lack of meaningful gun control = highest murder rates. No way around it.

..and Zoom making things up ???......like the ARMY/NAVY TV ratings ?....nah, not Zoom.

[Scarlet Hayes]

lies, damn lies and statistics. Don't get me wrong, i know that both sides of the argument use them to add clout to their respective positions.

Anyway, a small town in georgia passed a law mandating gun ownership. Crime has plummented and its population has, for a small town, sky-rocketed. Another town around the same time--circa 1982--passed a law banning guns. You guessed it, crime went up and the town is shrinking.


http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

[Blue Hen]

yeah, I've been reading assorted arguments for and against gun gluttony on assorted sites. Its a complex issue for sure, SH, but you can't deny that among the civilized countries we are the most gun obsessed and heavily armed and have the highest gun death rates....about 30,000 per year. There is just no way around it...........small town or no small town stuff.


the 2nd amendment served us well 100 years ago but its killing us now.

[Scarlet Hayes]

I'll bet one factor (this is just me talking) that hasn't been considered is our compromised legal system. i.e. we have a bunch of really bad people doing really light sentences. Maybe we should address that before we decide to grab everyone's guns. All kinds of ways to possibly address these issues without eliminating the 2nd amendment.

Again I'll go back to our nation's depravity as the main problem. No respect for life obviously being a major player. I mean we had guns galore in the 1930s, when we were going through economic ruin, and you didn't see crime at this magnitude. I am making an assumption about the '30s. Maybe things were worse than I believe. But I think I'm on the mark for the most part.

[Blue Hen]

I'm 100% with ya, SH. No sensible gun control can work unless our wimpy legal system gets a whole lot tougher...........and also nothing can work unless we get seriously tougher and close our borders. People with diseases, crime history, drugs, guns.....they just keep pouring in but 'W' says we need 'em to fill the low paying jobs around here.

[Scarlet Hayes]

I posted the article on another board and mentioned that there are obviously other factors involved in population growth and contraction. I should've mentioned that here as well.

The right to bear arms is the 2nd amendment. freedom of speech (and everything that goes with it) and the right to bear arms are at the top of the list. me thinks those old guys knew what they were doing.

to follow up the article about the little town in Georgia I'll rip off the title of a book: More Guns, Less Crime. On the flip side look at DC , a gun control advocate's wet dream. And an absolute crime ridden hell-hole.

[Scarlet Hayes]

It's perhaps bigoted of me, but I refer to these areas as being full of Scared White People


I don't get what you're saying here. you mean that if you have the means to live in a nice, safe area you shouldn't? Does showing your braveness/manhood mean that you should live in a crappy area? Is it possible that there are scared white people living in awful neighborhoods as well?

call me crazy, but if I have the jack to get out of a garbage neighborhood I'm going to do it.

I wonder if wealthy blacks that have the nerve to live in nice areas are considered to be wusses as well.

Not really trying to bust on you. I just get tired of the "white flight" rants. They're based on nonsense. Since when is wanting to live in a nice, safe area automatically equal to being "scared?" I call it a kick arse dose of common sense .

[Scarlet Hayes]

One more thing: you guys that often refer to "white flight" are often the same people that are against conceal/carry. think maybe there's a connection there?

[HellYeahHokie]

On the flip side look at DC , a gun control advocate's wet dream. And an absolute crime ridden hell-hole.

That's because people cross the river to Virginia to get their guns. Hell, Virginia is a pipeline for guns to New York City.

I'm not for repealing the 2nd Amendment. If we could start this country over, I might be. But I think it's too late now. There are just too many guns on the street. So, I do believe the arguement that if law-abiding people weren't allowed guns, then only criminals have guns. We're stuck with the mess we created by being a country built on free access to handguns. So there's no use trying to eliminate that which can't be eliminated.

But we can be sensible about access to weapons. We should be able to agree that weapons used for legitimate hunting and self-defense purposes are accessible to law-abiding citizens, after a thorough and intense background check (that would eliminate nutjobs like Cho from ever buying one). And I don't think its unreasonable to set limits on things like assault rifles, armor piercing bullets, plastic guns, RPGs, etc. These have nothing to do with hunting or personal self-defense, and I see no reason why they can't targeted for removal from our socieity.

I understand the NRAs position that if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. So the assault weapons are just the first step to removing all guns entirely. But there has to be some give and take on both sides. Gun control advocates can't be for complete elimination of guns (sorry Hen), and gun advocates can't be for complete access to guns (sorry Zoom). And I don't think ANYONE should be able to get a gun over the internet like Cho did. That's absurd.

[Scarlet Hayes]

But that's the thing. I think if you want to live in the city, then live in the city. If you want to live in a little town or in the country, then have at it. But something bothers me about many of the folk who want to have their cake and eat it, too -- who look down their noses at the perception of crime and debauchery in the city while latching onto its outskirts like some kind of barnacle -- who bring their giant vehicles into town to see a concert or catch a game, ignore pedestrians and other drivers, then complain about traffic and parking.


Now I see where you're coming from. Kind of a personal thing. I'd probably be the same way. To quote Seinfeld: "...People...they're the worst..."

One of my pet peeves is women and SUVs. I don't know why it bothers me but it does. it's kind of like "...now I'm going to bring my scatter brain driving habits into a vehicle that will keep me safe while, at the same time, ensuring you and yours a grisly death should we 'cross paths.'" And ya just "know" they're driving around their husband's vehicle, who makes bigtime jack, with a sense of contempt for us poor, working folk. to stay with the white theme, let's call her husband "Chip."

[copycat]

I get annoyed at the Soccer Moms and the big SUVs too, but also part of the issue with moving OTP is money. My house in Powder Springs was 118k, ITP it would be 400k (maybe more since I'm on a full acre)...

I do love the people who move out of town, drive all the way in town for work/games/etc. and bitch about traffic. I guess I love all those signs up in apartments and new communities that say "If you lived here, you'd be home by now!"

[Bucky]

That's because people cross the river to Virginia to get their guns. Hell, Virginia is a pipeline for guns to New York City.

I'm not for repealing the 2nd Amendment. If we could start this country over, I might be. But I think it's too late now. There are just too many guns on the street. So, I do believe the arguement that if law-abiding people weren't allowed guns, then only criminals have guns. We're stuck with the mess we created by being a country built on free access to handguns. So there's no use trying to eliminate that which can't be eliminated.

But we can be sensible about access to weapons. We should be able to agree that weapons used for legitimate hunting and self-defense purposes are accessible to law-abiding citizens, after a thorough and intense background check (that would eliminate nutjobs like Cho from ever buying one). And I don't think its unreasonable to set limits on things like assault rifles, armor piercing bullets, plastic guns, RPGs, etc. These have nothing to do with hunting or personal self-defense, and I see no reason why they can't targeted for removal from our socieity.

I understand the NRAs position that if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. So the assault weapons are just the first step to removing all guns entirely. But there has to be some give and take on both sides. Gun control advocates can't be for complete elimination of guns (sorry Hen), and gun advocates can't be for complete access to guns (sorry Zoom). And I don't think ANYONE should be able to get a gun over the internet like Cho did. That's absurd.


Excellent and well thought out points.

It's a debate that is framed, like every other in this country, by two extreme sides. The far right assault weapon loving NRA, vs the far left no gun eutopia left.

HYH, you present what I consider a moderate stance that to me equals common sense.


Eliminating all guns is not going to solve the problem, in fact it could make it worse. But let's use some common sense. Guns should not be bought on the internet, and there is no reason for any law abiding citizen to ever own an assualt weapon or any other heavy ammunition.

Unfortunately, it seems if you take any stance on this issue you are lumped as either being far right or far left, when to me it seems that common sense is placed right down the middle.

[Bucky]

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=041907D


This article is for the gun control crowd. If you were considering moving to Europe, where gun laws are much stricter, you might want to think twice.

It's not the lefty utopia that many of you may believe.

[EvilVodka]

Excellent and well thought out points.

It's a debate that is framed, like every other in this country, by two extreme sides. The far right assault weapon loving NRA, vs the far left no gun eutopia left.

HYH, you present what I consider a moderate stance that to me equals common sense.


Eliminating all guns is not going to solve the problem, in fact it could make it worse. But let's use some common sense. Guns should not be bought on the internet, and there is no reason for any law abiding citizen to ever own an assualt weapon or any other heavy ammunition.

Unfortunately, it seems if you take any stance on this issue you are lumped as either being far right or far left, when to me it seems that common sense is placed right down the middle.

I agree as well...even if every student was loaded with guns like Rambo, it wouldn't have stopped this, because no one expected someone to step right into the class room and start shooting...

Either all guns, or no guns isn't the answer...the amount of firearms isn't the problem IMO, its how easy a nutjob like Cho can get them...

if you're going to own guns, maybe you should have to have a psychological evaluation, or some type of class training that lets you become licensed to own a gun...some types of hoops to jump through to weed out nutjobs

ya, jumping through hoops to get a gun sucks, but I'd gladly do it to prevent another columbine or VT shooting

[copycat]

It crossed my mind as I was spewing what could be described as anti-suburban bile that there was another local around here who went to school in the thick of it and now lives "Somewhere near Atlanta". I wouldn't want to offend unnecessarily. After all, some of my best friends went to Tech (and two brothers, an uncle, a grandfather, and a first cousin).

By the way, do you think everybody in Kennesaw these days even knows they're supposed to have a gun and actually own one?

Oh no worries, I'm far from offended! :)

Don't know, the law in Kennesaw law was written well to include the words "unless you have a moral objection" so nobody *really* has to own a gun.

[ZOOMBAG]

We have over 300,000,000 people. Our violent crime rates per 1000 citizens are lower than most countries with tougher gun laws.

[HoyaSooner]

Here's the way I see it.

You will never eliminate guns from the USA. Never. Pretending we can do so is an incredible disservice. So let's stop pretending.

This guy was an obvious f***nut. Now, no obvious f***nut is going to go to a school with a bunch of loaded guns, take a step on campus, and suddenly say "Aww, HELL!!!!! I forgot this was a no-gun zone!!! How the hell am I gonna kill these people now? I guess I'll just go home and eat worms..."

No-gun zones are the absolute most retarded concept that the left has ever had (exceptions allowed for things like courthouses, where the gov't has the ability to search everyone before they enter, etc). That's saying quite a bit. A no-gun zone doesn't prevent you from having a gun. It doesn't prevent you from carrying a gun. The only thing it does is prevent law-abiding citizens from carrying guns. A criminal like this moron isn't going to be deterred from carrying a gun and risking a little more jail time. Again, no-gun zones don't discourage criminals - the only thing they do is ensure that no law-abiding citizens will have the means to counter criminals.

[EvilVodka]

Here's the way I see it.

You will never eliminate guns from the USA. Never. Pretending we can do so is an incredible disservice. So let's stop pretending.

This guy was an obvious f***nut. Now, no obvious f***nut is going to go to a school with a bunch of loaded guns, take a step on campus, and suddenly say "Aww, HELL!!!!! I forgot this was a no-gun zone!!! How the hell am I gonna kill these people now? I guess I'll just go home and eat worms..."

No-gun zones are the absolute most retarded concept that the left has ever had (exceptions allowed for things like courthouses, where the gov't has the ability to search everyone before they enter, etc). That's saying quite a bit. A no-gun zone doesn't prevent you from having a gun. It doesn't prevent you from carrying a gun. The only thing it does is prevent law-abiding citizens from carrying guns. A criminal like this moron isn't going to be deterred from carrying a gun and risking a little more jail time. Again, no-gun zones don't discourage criminals - the only thing they do is ensure that no law-abiding citizens will have the means to counter criminals.

interesting post...after reading this, I've come to the conclusion that we should keep Zoombag away from guns