OT: Opinion on upcoming Presidential Race

[EvilVodka]

Obama is going to win and be this country's next president...he's tapping into something that really resonates with the american people

I truly believe that most people are in the center when it comes to politics and will lean right or left depending on what the issue is, but most of all, this group in the center is tired of rhetoric when it looks like washington has dropped the ball and the country could be in deep sh!t in the near future...

IMO, Obama will finish off Hillary in Texas and Ohio and go on to win the democratic nomination

Then you'll have new and young Obama, with inspiring messages of hope and change, and John McCain, who is starting to look really old, and whose maverick views look like they've been worn down through the years, talking about how successful the surge is...

I really like McCain, but he doesn't seem original anymore...he's not the same McCain of 2000...McCain was the Obama of the 2000 race, but he's not the same guy now...he seems like a guy that wants to continue with the current Bush policies, and that's the last thing I personally want to see...

I voted for Bush in 2000, and since then I continually lose touch with the Republican Party, which pretty much disgusts me now

The Republicans have an Obama in this election though...his name is Ron Paul

He has the same stimulating grassroots energy that Obama has, and brings intellectual debate which stimulates the young vote, and the way Fox News treated him was absolutely disgusting...the lack of support for a candidate like Ron Paul is a true failure for the republican party as a whole

Of course that wasn't the only thing that disgusted me about the Republican debates...the general negative campaigning between the candidates was much higher for the republicans than the democrats (except for H. Clinton), the call to not support McCain by republican talking heads is a joke, the failure to come to terms with the failure of Iraq occupation is a detrimental issue, and the lack of openness to new ideas is ultimately hurting the party

If the republicans want to capture the young vote, the independent vote, and even some democratic voters, they've really got to re-examine the nature of what the party truly stands for...talking heads like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly aren't doing anything to embrace this demographic IMO...how exactly did these guys become media leaders for the party??

The republican party needs to re-organize and come to terms with what they really want in a candidate, not what Fox news talking heads tell them they want...there's nothing wrong with wanting security for the country or less government, but you have to engage the debate and come up with new ideas to solve the problems that are rising to meet us...

There's a reason why the democratic establishment of Hillary Clinton is losing, and so far, it looks like McCain is going to try the same gameplan....how are the results going to be any different? do I really wanna hear negative attacks on how empty the talk of change is? does anyone?

[treyinathens]

Heckler,

I agree that the GOP is gonna take it on the chin, but your Wisconsin numbers mean nothing...

THe GOP is sewn up, there is still some glimmer of hope (or was before yesterday) for Hillary.

I vote in pretty much every election, but if the Georgia primary had been yesterday, I would have seen no reason to head to the polls and vote in a Republican primary.

We are about to elect the least qualified Presidential candidate in US History.

[EvilVodka]

You raise very good points, but I'm not altogether convinced. Those voters in the South and Midwest and Plains states who normally wouldn't be all that fired up to vote for McCain (preferring to have the opportunity to vote for Huckabee) will be fired up to vote against Obama. But then, an Obama victory never hinged on carrying Georgia and Oklahoma.

As for your comments about Hannity and Limbaugh, etc., they will prove very useful to the GOP once the general election campaign gets under way. They will come out with all guns against whoever the Democratic nominee is.

And how did they get to be the mouthpieces for the Republican Party? Gingrich made the initial appointments, and Bush/Rove renewed them.

Well, undoubtedly, McCain will get some of the traditional republican vote, just like Hillary is getting the traditional democratic vote right now...

But I'm the independent vote, I'm the young vote, I'm the voter who is tired of washington screwing up, I don't give a knee-jerk vote based on party-lines, and you're losing me...

As for Hannity and Limbaugh, when I try and listen to these guys, it turns into nonsensical gibberish...IMO, negative campaigning is going to backfire against Obama, and possibly even fuel his campaign...I feel like these guys have brainwashed alot of people into believing that new ideas or new approaches are attempts by the left at coercion, and IMO this philosophy is going to eventually fizzle out, especially when the country reaches a point of crisis that it will take a radical shift in views to pull us out of a bottomless pit that we all seem headed towards...

There is so much dissatisfaction with washington that there's alot of groundswell for change in both parties, and its a movement that isn't going to just dissipate in this election...the democrats have taken advantage of it, and the republicans haven't...

there's a reason why there has been record turnout, young people are more energized, independent people are more energized, and the large portion of the population that doesn't usually vote is becoming more eager to be part of the process...

I'm not a supporter of Huckabee, but just this morning he was asked why he's staying in the race with no mathematical chance of getting the nomination, and he said that it was good for the party, that he wanted the party to engage debate on new issues, that the attitude of "things will be fine in november" needs a reality check, that the republican party needs a clear message

And he's 100% right

[EvilVodka]

We are about to elect the least qualified Presidential candidate in US History.

And why is that? Why are such a large number of voters willing to overlook that fact?

IMO, both establishments in both parties have lost connection with the bulk of the american people...people are sick of status quo politics, especially in the face of 1001 problems hitting our country

[JamesHowell]

Hard to tell who the dem nominee will be at this point. Obama is slighlty ahead. Hillary is way ahead in Ohio and has a decent lead in Texas. Assuming she wins both, it is very close. Further, neither candidate can get the nomination absent the supers and Hillary has an advantage there. I would expect a bloody and increasingly dirty race all the way to the convention.

As to the general, while McCain was probably the worst possible gop nominee, looking at a state by state basis, he does well against either Hillary or Obama. The only red state that Hillary could flip would be New Mexico if Richardson is on the ticket and McCain could easily flip New Hampshire. If Obama is the nominee, Iowa might be a possible flip, but McCain polls well against him in Pennsylvania. McCain's polls very well in Ohio and (at this point in time) looks like he would hold every other red state plus make the dems spend time and money in California.

McCain vs. either candidate would be very close.

[EvilVodka]

As to the general, while McCain was probably the worst possible gop nominee, looking at a state by state basis, he does well against either Hillary or Obama. The only red state that Hillary could flip would be New Mexico if Richardson is on the ticket and McCain could easily flip New Hampshire. If Obama is the nominee, Iowa might be a possible flip, but McCain polls well against him in Pennsylvania. McCain's polls very well in Ohio and (at this point in time) looks like he would hold every other red state plus make the dems spend time and money in California.

McCain vs. either candidate would be very close.

In the past several years, I've heard from alot of republican people that McCain is too old...I've always disagreed with this, but IMO, this factor will really kick in after a couple of debates with Obama on stage... I've watched both parties debate in their primaries, and IMO it won't take much for Obama to make McCain look old and ineffectual...

[Blue Hen]

It's scary, for sure.... a completely inexperienced, untested US President


.....yet, a completely uncorrupted President with no corporate or special interest puppet strings attached.... a guy who doesn't 'owe' anybody.

It could work beautifully or be a chaotic flop. Who knows ?

[JamesHowell]

Obama's albatross will be when he has to actually take policy positions and when his voting record becomes forefront. Remember, he is making Hillary look like a moderate and she is slightly to the left of Lenin.

[EvilVodka]

Obama's albatross will be when he has to actually take policy positions and when his voting record becomes forefront. Remember, he is making Hillary look like a moderate and she is slightly to the left of Lenin.

If Obama hasn't actually revealed his policies as you say, then how has he made Hillary look like a moderate?

And if Obama is so far left, why is he grabbing so many independent votes? why is he doing so well? IMO, Obama resonates far more with the center than Hillary Clinton does

[Coach 3]

...why are you repubics acitng as if "johnny "hothead " mccain is runnign in a vaucum as some kind of new policy/new guy.?..he i s runnign on bush's utterly failed, corrupt to its core, incompetent record...its really gonna be a Dem vs the failure and grim corruption of bushco in this election...mccain has no intellectual energy, no spark...jus tedious cliches and blue haired old rich women and fat archei bunkers in his corner....he's peddling a continuation of failure of staggerign proportions, which is "bushco'!...count mccain out by a 70-30% UNDER 35 VOTE..A 95% -5% black vote...a 75-25% latino vote and no matter how you look at it, bush's failure to do anything for anyone other than war profiteers, his billioanire and millionaire constituency and the corporations is gonna keep millions of repubs at home ....in contrast, dem turnout is swelling everywhere....sure, several million conservative racists will "never vote for a black man', but then again, they were voting republican becuase the 'wink and nod" racism of modern republican politics appealed to them in t he first place....i cant wait to see all these hateful bigot conservatives writhing in agony over a black president!

[Don]

Obama's albatross will be when he has to actually take policy positions and when his voting record becomes forefront. Remember, he is making Hillary look like a moderate and she is slightly to the left of Lenin.

disturb me as they are disingenuous. Are you "just to the right of Hitler"?

[GatorGrad]

I am a Republican and always vote RED...but I think that either Hillary or Obama will run circles around McCain in the debates. I am not looking forward to them. They will be painful to watch.

I voted for Ron Paul in the Florida primaries, not because I actually thought he had a chance of winning, but to make a statement. His ideas may seem crazy now to some, but I think he's on to something and would like to see some of his ideas implemented some day. The FairTax is the greatest idea since sliced bread. I wish they gave him more of a chance to debate - everytime he opened his mouth, he made perfect sense to me.

I would have preferred Romney over McCain too due to his business experience. Would have voted for Huckabee over McCain as well. McCain just doesn't do it for me. My uncle is a Republican as well and says he's voting for Obama in November. My father is most likely in the same boat. I suspect many other traditional Republicans will be doing the same. I'll stick with the GOP and vote red...but I don't think it will matter.

[tigercpa]

I am a Republican and always vote RED...but I think that either Hillary or Obama will run circles around McCain in the debates. I am not looking forward to them. They will be painful to watch.

I voted for Ron Paul in the Florida primaries, not because I actually thought he had a chance of winning, but to make a statement. His ideas may seem crazy now to some, but I think he's on to something and would like to see some of his ideas implemented some day. The FairTax is the greatest idea since sliced bread. I wish they gave him more of a chance to debate - everytime he opened his mouth, he made perfect sense to me.

I would have preferred Romney over McCain too due to his business experience. Would have voted for Huckabee over McCain as well. McCain just doesn't do it for me. My uncle is a Republican as well and says he's voting for Obama in November. My father is most likely in the same boat. I suspect many other traditional Republicans will be doing the same. I'll stick with the GOP and vote red...but I don't think it will matter.

A big national sales tax is such a wacky idea that I feel like my IQ drops every time I even acknowledge it as something worth discussing…

If you think the federal government is intrusive now, wait until it’s got its finger in every damn transaction you make.

I am totally against a POS (point of sale) collection system for federal taxes. It’s too easy for the government to take....kinda like using a credit card...plastic is not real money, so it’s easy to whip it out - you don’t realize how much you have spent.

An enormous sales tax like this is going to cause almost universal tax evasion, with everyone paying as much as they can under the table. The feds will have to counter this with a huge sales tax enforcement arm. Audits for everybody all year round! Russia today is a prime example of this....

Also, anybody want to pony up another $210,000 (30%) when they buy a $700,000 house in my area? That, in addition to the 20% downpayment you’ll need…

The national sales tax would replace a system that places a disproportionate burden on the rich with a new system that places a disproportionate burden on the poor, who spend a higher percentage of their income than the wealthy do. Then the lobbyits wopuld be at it again, carving out this or that for their respective groups....

And as one colleague pointed out to me, the national sales tax would also wallop retirees. People like my grandparents, who have spent a lifetime paying income tax and saving, now face a new large tax on spending...double taxation.

20 developed countries have enacted a national sales tax, and 20 moved on to something else. A national sales tax is 0-20 in application.

The countries that have abandoned the NST approach determined that 12% was the maximum its citizens were prepared to pay, far less than the 30% - 50% rate that would be necessary here. Even Huckabee said the rate might have to be as high as 57%.

[EvilVodka]

I am a Republican and always vote RED...but I think that either Hillary or Obama will run circles around McCain in the debates. I am not looking forward to them. They will be painful to watch.

I voted for Ron Paul in the Florida primaries, not because I actually thought he had a chance of winning, but to make a statement. His ideas may seem crazy now to some, but I think he's on to something and would like to see some of his ideas implemented some day. The FairTax is the greatest idea since sliced bread. I wish they gave him more of a chance to debate - everytime he opened his mouth, he made perfect sense to me.

I would have preferred Romney over McCain too due to his business experience. Would have voted for Huckabee over McCain as well. McCain just doesn't do it for me. My uncle is a Republican as well and says he's voting for Obama in November. My father is most likely in the same boat. I suspect many other traditional Republicans will be doing the same. I'll stick with the GOP and vote red...but I don't think it will matter.

kudos to you for voting for Ron Paul...IMO, he has the ideas that would really get the republican party back to basics and re-organize thoughts and goals

I'm not a huge Romney fan, but no doubt, his fiscal competency is light years beyond most of the other candidates...It was interesting in the debates watching the other candidates, namely McCain, Huckabee, and Guiliani, fumble around, trying to keep pace on economic issues with Romney

[JamesHowell]

tigercpa

You have totally missed it. First, the sales tax is only on new items, not used. Second, the government would mail a check to every legal family on a monthly basis for the tax on the poverty-level income. Third, the tax exempts food, clothes, the first $25,000 on a new car and the first $250,000 on a new home.

[Bucs90]

I'm all for the national sales tax. In fact, I just got my tax returns. I OWE money, as many do. Spent 1.5 years as a cop. I put on a bullet proof vest and a gun every day, risked my life to defend strangers, and did it all for under 50K a year. Most cops work off-duty just to make ends meet. And the government said I was living too large. I OWE them money. I was blessed to be born into a good family, so the money isn't an issue, but the concept is. If my salary were the only source of money I had, I would have a serious issue thinking a man can go risk his life with a vest and gun to protect American soil, for 30-40K a year, and the gov't says they OWE at tax time. Meanwhile, the welfare baby mommas are buying new rims for the Caddy with their tax return. I'll be a Ron Paul supporter from here on. I've spoken to many of my former coworkers at the PD who just found out the also OWE money. If Ron Paul suggests abolishing the IRS in favor of a sales tax, then he is my candidate and I will vote for him or write him in.

ALTHOUGH........................I thought about voting for Obama. I mean.....HOPE.....CHANGE......DREAMS........HOPE.. .......UNITED.......HOPE.......HOPEFUL HOPE.........HOPINESS HOPE...........HOPEFUL CHANGED HOPE......How can I vote against all that? Not sure about his experience or policy, but man, even when the Dem's jack taxes through the roof, at least he'll give me HOPE!!!

[GatorGrad]

ALTHOUGH........................I thought about voting for Obama. I mean.....HOPE.....CHANGE......DREAMS........HOPE.. .......UNITED.......HOPE.......HOPEFUL HOPE.........HOPINESS HOPE...........HOPEFUL CHANGED HOPE......How can I vote against all that? Not sure about his experience or policy, but man, even when the Dem's jack taxes through the roof, at least he'll give me HOPE!!!

This is the problem I have with Obama. I feel like it's all based on rah-rah hype with little substance. Hope, change, Washington is broke, etc. That's all I hear about. But I don't hear many explanations as to HOW things will change, HOW he will fix Washington, etc. It just seems like a big pep rally with a bunch of lemmings following along in the excitment. Half of the Obama supporters I speak to and ask what they like about him reply with "we need change, fresh ideas, Washington is broke," etc...or something to that extent. Most of them don't even know what his policy is on several key issues.

Don't get me wrong, Obama seems like he would be a pretty good and dynamic leader. But is he really ready to be President of the United States? As a Republican, I don't agree with Obama or Hillary on much at all, but if you asked me who I think is the most prepared to be President and lead our country between the two of them, I would say Hillary. Not that I'm a fan of hers either. And while I'm not excited about my own party's candidate, John McCain, I'll still vote for him...as the lesser of two evils. Where's RR when you need him?

[Bucs90]

He gives on hell of a speech. So did Hitler. If Obama were a football coach, he'd be among the great motivators in the game.

But, come on now GatorGrad, policy and experience don't matter. He's gonna give us CHANGE and HOPE. He knows we are HOPEFUL for CHANGE and he's gonna give us the CHANGE that we HOPED for. Hope. Change. I mean, what else do we need?

Or, vote for Hilary. She has the experience. Not sure what she has actually been in charge of in her life....ever. But she said she has 35 year of experience. And if a Clinton said it, it must be true.

Democrats will give us experience, hope, change, hope, not-Bush, change, hope, more change, more hope, more not-Bush, more hope and a side order of change. Topped with hope. Economy, terrorism, taxes, immigration, social security and all that other petty stuff truly doesn't matter so long as we have change and hope. Don't you agree? If you still don't agree, don't forget this: If you vote Republican, you are a racist. And we all HOPE you aren't a racist, are you? If you are, you need to CHANGE that and vote Democrat!!!!

[GatorGrad]

TigerCPA - Your screen name tells me why you would be against the FairTax. No IRS...that wouldn't be good for the CPA's and accountants in the world...what would they do with their time?

:)

[Blue Hen]

You guys sound like 3 point voters to me. You don't agree on everything but you state your positions based on 'thinking'. Voters who are incapable of 'thinking' or too lazy to think shouldn't offset your votes....one to one.

[tigercpa]

TigerCPA - Your screen name tells me why you would be against the FairTax. No IRS...that wouldn't be good for the CPA's and accountants in the world...what would they do with their time?

:)

Fair disclosure...I am not in private practice and do not prepare tax returns clients or advise on tax matters, so I have no motive to keep me gainfully employed.

The claim that the IRS will be eliminated under the FairTax is bogus. Although the national sales tax will be collected by the states from retailers, it is still a national sales tax, and as such, its collection will have to be overseen by some agency of the federal government. Just because the bureaucracy will no longer be called the IRS doesn't mean that it will be eliminated.

Changing the phrase "Internal Revenue Service" to "Department of the Treasury" and "Commissioner of Internal Revenue" to "Secretary" doesn't eliminate the federal bureaucracy.

An army of sales tax auditors will be needed to police / enforce this.

To repeal the 16th Amendment would require a constitutional amendment. Can Congress be relied on to pass a constitutional amendment that repeals the 16th amendment after a national sales tax has already been enacted? And even if Congress passed a constitutional amendment, it would still have to be approved by three-fourths of the states. Without the repeal of the 16th Amendment, what is to prevent an income tax from being imposed again after a national sales tax has been enacted?

Trading Satan for Satan in a pink dress and lipstick still gives us Satan.

Notwithstanding the exemptions that James Howell correctly noted, this opens up a Pandora's box of questions...

What about gasoline? Oops...that $3.00 just became $3.90 per gallon overnight, becuase last time I checked Texaco and Exxon don't sell used gasoline.

Postal services...previously untaxed now become taxed...The national retail sales tax rate under the FairTax plan is 30 percent (tax-exclusive basis). That is on top of state sales taxes that are currently collected by forty-five states. That is on top of the sales tax that many cities and counties also collect. That is on top of the special taxes that exist on hotel rooms in most areas of the country.

That $500 a night hotel room in NYC now costs over $700...

There is only one word I can find to describe the fact that the federal government now spends almost $3 trillion a year: obscene.

At least 90 percent of what the federal government spends is unconstitutional, wasteful, or against the limited-government principles of the Founders.

The only thing the FairTax does is change the way the state confiscates the wealth of its citizens. As Congressman Ron Paul says: "The real issue is total spending by government, not tax reform."

The fairtax does nothing to tame this federal leviathan.

[Spice1]

I wouldn't really feel any differnce in that $3.90 gallon of gas instead of the $3.00 price, because I would have $1.00 more in my pocket.

[Bucs90]

Spice, you make a great point. I mean, 3 vs 3.90? What is that? 15 dollars a week? Thats a Blockbuster movie and some McDonalds. In that 15 dollar loss we will recover it with other goods going down in price. See the amazingly low prices on DVDs, electronics, clothing, well, anything other than fuel and groceries. Actually, even most groceries are cheaper. It really isn't affecting us. Americans just like to complain, especially leftists. We got it made here.

[ZOOMBAG]

Obama is going to win and be this country's next president...he's tapping into something that really resonates with the american people

I truly believe that most people are in the center when it comes to politics and will lean right or left depending on what the issue is, but most of all, this group in the center is tired of rhetoric when it looks like washington has dropped the ball and the country could be in deep sh!t in the near future...

IMO, Obama will finish off Hillary in Texas and Ohio and go on to win the democratic nomination

Then you'll have new and young Obama, with inspiring messages of hope and change, and John McCain, who is starting to look really old, and whose maverick views look like they've been worn down through the years, talking about how successful the surge is...

I really like McCain, but he doesn't seem original anymore...he's not the same McCain of 2000...McCain was the Obama of the 2000 race, but he's not the same guy now...he seems like a guy that wants to continue with the current Bush policies, and that's the last thing I personally want to see...

I voted for Bush in 2000, and since then I continually lose touch with the Republican Party, which pretty much disgusts me now

The Republicans have an Obama in this election though...his name is Ron Paul

He has the same stimulating grassroots energy that Obama has, and brings intellectual debate which stimulates the young vote, and the way Fox News treated him was absolutely disgusting...the lack of support for a candidate like Ron Paul is a true failure for the republican party as a whole

Of course that wasn't the only thing that disgusted me about the Republican debates...the general negative campaigning between the candidates was much higher for the republicans than the democrats (except for H. Clinton), the call to not support McCain by republican talking heads is a joke, the failure to come to terms with the failure of Iraq occupation is a detrimental issue, and the lack of openness to new ideas is ultimately hurting the party

If the republicans want to capture the young vote, the independent vote, and even some democratic voters, they've really got to re-examine the nature of what the party truly stands for...talking heads like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly aren't doing anything to embrace this demographic IMO...how exactly did these guys become media leaders for the party??

The republican party needs to re-organize and come to terms with what they really want in a candidate, not what Fox news talking heads tell them they want...there's nothing wrong with wanting security for the country or less government, but you have to engage the debate and come up with new ideas to solve the problems that are rising to meet us...

There's a reason why the democratic establishment of Hillary Clinton is losing, and so far, it looks like McCain is going to try the same gameplan....how are the results going to be any different? do I really wanna hear negative attacks on how empty the talk of change is? does anyone?

It's going to be an extremely ugly general election campaign. Clinton has yet to really force Obama to actually get specific on anything. You can bet McCain will force an exact meaning of "ending" the Iraq war means. His Indonesian lineage will be brought up over and over again. His dealings with corrupt Chicago slum lords will be front and center. He may survive but it will be swift-boat x10.

Obama is anything BUT centrist, he's about the most liberal far left candidate since George McGovern. But McCain comes across as a crochety, short tempered old man.

But Americans are more into cult worship and celebrity than real issues so Obama's cultural cult status will be hard to overcome.

[ZOOMBAG]

Americans are into celebrity and Obama comes off as one. Most Americans couldn't give a damn about real issue, otherwise Obama would get only the far-left looney left vote, as he's a died in the wool socialist and pacifist.

[ZOOMBAG]

McCain's real saving grace is that Obama is so far to the left, that when his real positions on things are actually forced into public view it might sway much of the center, who is not into idol worship, to the centrist and pragmatic McCain.

[Bucs90]

But Zoom, Obama's true positions will not ever be known. Remember, he is offering HOPE and CHANGE. What else do we need? So long as he keeps repeating those two words, we can be assured that he is the right choice. Come on Zoom, have faith in HOPE and CHANGE. Be hopeful for change. The change is what you should hope for. Have the audacity to hope for change that we hoped would change our nation that has lost hope because of lack of change.

[copycat]

Fair disclosure...I am not in private practice and do not prepare tax returns clients or advise on tax matters, so I have no motive to keep me gainfully employed.

The claim that the IRS will be eliminated under the FairTax is bogus. Although the national sales tax will be collected by the states from retailers, it is still a national sales tax, and as such, its collection will have to be overseen by some agency of the federal government. Just because the bureaucracy will no longer be called the IRS doesn't mean that it will be eliminated.

Changing the phrase "Internal Revenue Service" to "Department of the Treasury" and "Commissioner of Internal Revenue" to "Secretary" doesn't eliminate the federal bureaucracy.

An army of sales tax auditors will be needed to police / enforce this.

To repeal the 16th Amendment would require a constitutional amendment. Can Congress be relied on to pass a constitutional amendment that repeals the 16th amendment after a national sales tax has already been enacted? And even if Congress passed a constitutional amendment, it would still have to be approved by three-fourths of the states. Without the repeal of the 16th Amendment, what is to prevent an income tax from being imposed again after a national sales tax has been enacted?

Trading Satan for Satan in a pink dress and lipstick still gives us Satan.

Notwithstanding the exemptions that James Howell correctly noted, this opens up a Pandora's box of questions...

What about gasoline? Oops...that $3.00 just became $3.90 per gallon overnight, becuase last time I checked Texaco and Exxon don't sell used gasoline.

Postal services...previously untaxed now become taxed...The national retail sales tax rate under the FairTax plan is 30 percent (tax-exclusive basis). That is on top of state sales taxes that are currently collected by forty-five states. That is on top of the sales tax that many cities and counties also collect. That is on top of the special taxes that exist on hotel rooms in most areas of the country.

That $500 a night hotel room in NYC now costs over $700...

There is only one word I can find to describe the fact that the federal government now spends almost $3 trillion a year: obscene.

At least 90 percent of what the federal government spends is unconstitutional, wasteful, or against the limited-government principles of the Founders.

The only thing the FairTax does is change the way the state confiscates the wealth of its citizens. As Congressman Ron Paul says: "The real issue is total spending by government, not tax reform."

The fairtax does nothing to tame this federal leviathan.

The specific wording of the FairTax bill before congress has it set to that it will not be enacted until the 16th amendment is repealed. Therefore we couldn't have an income tax + national retail sales tax.

The price of all goods sold will come down due to the fact the labor and materials used by the corporations to make the product you are buying will have no tax component to it. On average, that is about 22% of a product price. I know some companies will try to jack up the price and make you think otherwise, but competition usually solves these things quickly.

I still hate the "30% exclusive" argument as well. When you see something marked $100 on the shelf, it's not $130 at the register, it's $100 at the register, and $23 of that is the National Retail Sales Tax.

To most businesses, this shouldn't be a big deal to implement. They already pay state sales taxes in most cases, so they already track inventory sold and income on all products. Hell, it's what a business is for, selling something!

There is also the "prebate" part, where every person in america will get credited for the amount of tax paid on the "bare necessities" of life. Now while I know the cost of living varies from city to city, it still will keep the poor from being disproportionately taxed.

The original idea of the FairTax is that it is "revenue neutral" as in it will not change the amount of income coming into the federal government. It does not say the tax rate cannot be changed, nor that it has to be either. But at least it will make the politicians much more accountable, they can't just raise rates on one group and not another.

[tigercpa]

The specific wording of the FairTax bill before congress has it set to that it will not be enacted until the 16th amendment is repealed. Therefore we couldn't have an income tax + national retail sales tax.

The price of all goods sold will come down due to the fact the labor and materials used by the corporations to make the product you are buying will have no tax component to it. On average, that is about 22% of a product price. I know some companies will try to jack up the price and make you think otherwise, but competition usually solves these things quickly.

I still hate the "30% exclusive" argument as well. When you see something marked $100 on the shelf, it's not $130 at the register, it's $100 at the register, and $23 of that is the National Retail Sales Tax.

To most businesses, this shouldn't be a big deal to implement. They already pay state sales taxes in most cases, so they already track inventory sold and income on all products. Hell, it's what a business is for, selling something!

There is also the "prebate" part, where every person in america will get credited for the amount of tax paid on the "bare necessities" of life. Now while I know the cost of living varies from city to city, it still will keep the poor from being disproportionately taxed.

The original idea of the FairTax is that it is "revenue neutral" as in it will not change the amount of income coming into the federal government. It does not say the tax rate cannot be changed, nor that it has to be either. But at least it will make the politicians much more accountable, they can't just raise rates on one group and not another.

The tax is applied at the register, it's not "buried" in the $100 shelf price.

The fairtax website actually states this explicity:

...Or about 30 percent at the cash register when they elect to spend on new goods or services for their own personal consumption. And this tax is collected only on spending above the federal poverty level, providing important progressivity...

Therefore, for full and fair disclosure, folks must understand the difference between the tax-inclusive rate (which is how most income taxes are quoted) and the tax-exclusive rate (the conventional way sales taxes are computed).

Here is a simple example:

You go to WalMart and buy a DVD player for $100...

The assumed NRST rate is 30%.

Therefore, $100 * 1.30 = $130.00 total cash outlay at the register.

Now, the tax-inclusive rate is 23%. How?

$30 / $130 = 23% (the tax has been included in the denominator, which gives the effect of a lower percentage).

This is a very important distinction. Neither method of quoting a tax rate is incorrect, but public discussion could be greatly improved if the difference
between the two rates was clarified.

The differences between those rates and the 23 percent tax-inclusive (30 percent tax-exclusive) rate used in H.R. 25 can be traced to a mathematical or logical mistake made by advocates of the NRST. When they estimated
government revenues under the sales tax, they (implicitly) assumed that consumer prices (what consumers pay, including the sales tax) would rise by the full amount of the sales tax and that producer prices (what producers
receive, net of the sales tax) would stay constant. But when they estimated government spending needs, they (implicitly) assumed that consumer prices would stay constant and producer prices would fall by the full
amount of the tax.

Both sets of these assumptions cannot be valid at the same time; either the first assumption overstates nominal revenues, or the second assumption understates nominal required spending, or both. In any of those cases, the inconsistency has significant effects on revenue nuetrality.

If H.R. 25 were enacted at a 23 percent tax-inclusive rate, the resulting revenue loss relative to current law would be almost $600 billion in 2010, and more than $7 trllion over the next decade — even under the strong, optimistic economic assumptions, and we know the state of the current markt, don't we?

[ZOOMBAG]

It's the CELEBRITY WORSHIP vote. Only a fairly small number of independents are voting, but most of those who are are electing to vote in Democratic primaries and caususes, and they are basically getting caught up in the celebrity worship.

O'Bama's voting record in the senate is the 3rd most liberal in the body. He's even more liberal than that idiot from from Nevada who the majority leader, Harry, the Hack, Reed.

When he gets to the general election he WILL get hammered with his record, which is FAR MORE extreme than either Gore or Kerry was and they were both pretty hard left themselves.

O'bama is a hard core socialist and that will become quite clear once McCain gets around to bashing the hell out of his record, which he will.

[ZOOMBAG]

Lyndon Johnson was the most far left president we have ever had, domestically, but he was a hawk on defense (thus the label "Guns and Butter")...

Most of the Presidents between Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were far more conservative than any modern day Republican. They were all basically hard core Libertarian.

Kennedy, was also a fairly hard core anti-Comunist and fairly hawkish concerning the Soviet Union. Again a very leftist domestically but not on foreign policy.

Bush Jr has actually been quite left-leaning on much foreign policy outside Iraq. He has given more aid to Africa than any president in history.

[ZOOMBAG]

Enforcement is still the biggest draw back to a consumption based tax. Black markets will thrive. People living near the Canadian or Mexican borders will buy almost exclusively over there. The rest will use the Internet, buying mostly from Canada, UK and China, as a means to circumvent a lot of it, states find it very hard to enforce sales tax on Internet sales already (see eBay).

[ZOOMBAG]

I don't want change and don't need more hope. I like things pretty much like they are. I like fighting terrorists OVER THERE so we don';t have to fight them OVER HERE. And I make good money and pay relatively low taxes. What's not to like?

[Bucs90]

Zoom, I agree with you. I was mocking the Obama supporters, well, really just Democrats in general. They are buying into "Change we can believe in" and the "Audacity of Hope". Take any Democrat speech and you will see the key words "Hope", "Change" and "Believe" at least once in every two sentences!!!!

I will say, though, Republicans are making me sick also. They have lost their spines at the altar of appeasing the liberals. We need a heroic independent candidate. I just don't like any of the politicians right now. Romney was the closest to what I would hope for.

[Bucs90]

Biffy, for once, you are right. The Republicans are damaged and need a major wake up call. They need to get back to their true values and stop appeasing liberals. The liberalism tide in America is a trend, one which will change once the sheepish liberals see the end result of their whining. Obama or Hilary in office will show that result. Liberalism is the result of people who simply are unhappy with themselves and love a scapegoat to complain about and blame. Once these liberal recent college grads get their Democrat in office, and they see their paychecks disappearing, the "What tha ****" factor will kick in. Republicans and conservatives will unite against the destruction of America as we know it, and in 2012 or 2016 America will get back on track.