Fab 5 Banner Unfurled

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

We'll never forget these trendsetters for better or worse. Five true freshman starting in the natl title game is much more likely now than it was back then. I can remember when the Fab 5 first started all together against ND and what a show it was. I'll always remember.

Here's the story. I could not attach.
"http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/020807acr.html":)

[mini_me]

We'll never forget these trendsetters for better or worse. Five true freshman starting in the natl title game is much more likely now than it was back then. I can remember when the Fab 5 first started all together against ND and what a show it was. I'll always remember.

Here's the story. I could not attach.
"http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/020807acr.html":)

Its sickening that Webber thinks its such a great thing. Trendsetters? How can ANY fan think anything but utter dispise players who do what these kids did.

I can ASSURE you as a buckeye fan Maruice Clarrett is not now, nor will he EVER be thought of in a positive light by buckeye fans, particularly those in Columbus Ohio. OSU would not have made it to the MNC game without him let alone win it all. What Maurice did is childs play compared to what Webber and Martin did to Michigan baskeball.

[Bucky]

What arrogance. These kids ruined Michigan basketball. The program is in shambles. After they left, Michigan has never been able to land top notch talent....so much for trendsetting. But I guess if Michigan fans are proud of what they accomplished, more power to them.

[NCT]

On a smaller scale, the whole Harrick/Tony Cole fiasco we had down here was a heartbreaker. We've had virtually no kind of basketball tradition at Georgia (I take that back - no kind of men's basketball tradition - must give the ladies their due), but for Wilkins and one Final Four appearance, but things were looking very exciting in '02-'03. I'm just glad the problems came to light before the tournament. If we'd had any March Madness success at all, I think it would have been even harder to bounce back from PR and recruitment standpoints. But I feel pretty safe in saying that if they had been fortunate enough to advance deep in the tournament and the scandal broke afterward, Harrick would still be considered a pariah in these parts (like he already was everywhere else he's been), perhaps even more so. Granted, it's not like Georgia men's basketball had a long way to fall, but forfeiting 30 wins, credit for a rare NCAA tournament (2002) appearance, and what would certainly have been another (2003) sucked.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I disagree with the child's play comment. And what exactly did they do? What's the proof? I'm not supporting their actions, just the Fab Five's place in history for their performance and lack thereof.

[HellYeahHokie]

What did they do? Where is the proof?

When a University gives itself sanctions. When the University doesn't even hang the banners in their arena, you don't think there's proof they did anything wrong? They brought down the Michigan basketball program, and it's going to take a long time to bring it back. Ask Tommy Amaker how things are going.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

You still never directly answered the questions? Instead, you used inferential reasoning. MiniMe talked about how much worse Webber's situation was than Clarett's but failed to provide any substance to his position. And neither did you.

And if you can't think within the extremes, let me know. For if you read my entire post, I never did say anything about Michigan not having done something wrong? The only thing I can conclude is that both you and MiniMe can't offer balanced reasoning. And isn't it funny how many OSU fans also asked for proof about the Clarett situation when the issue came up, yet they couldn't disprove any allegations either.

And again, when did I write anything about nothing happened? That would be as false as a VT fan saying that VT runs a clean football program. Care to repost a reply.

[HellYeahHokie]

You said..."And what exactly did they do? What's the proof?"

That's an exact quote, which is what I replied to. My point is very simple. Why would the University of Michigan completely disassociate itself from the Fab 5, put sanctions on themselves, and hide banners from that era in a basement, if there hadn't been significant impropriety.

How is that not balanced reasoning? How is that just inferential reasoning?

I'll let Mini-Me respond to the issue about what is worse, however the allegations against Clarret's payoffs and Webbers payoffs are the difference between thousands of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

You said..."And what exactly did they do? What's the proof?"

That's an exact quote, which is what I replied to. My point is very simple. Why would the University of Michigan completely disassociate itself from the Fab 5, put sanctions on themselves, and hide banners from that era in a basement, if there hadn't been significant impropriety.

How is that not balanced reasoning? How is that just inferential reasoning?

I'll let Mini-Me respond to the issue about what is worse, however the allegations against Clarret's payoffs and Webbers payoffs are the difference between thousands of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Maybe Michigan has to get back to the Webber-type benefit programs for its players but just be better at it. If not, they may be a perennial NIT team and that won't fly with MSU and OSU as steady powers.

[mini_me]

I disagree with the child's play comment. And what exactly did they do? What's the proof? I'm not supporting their actions, just the Fab Five's place in history for their performance and lack thereof.

Give me a break. The fab 5 took over $500,000 in cash. I suppose the NCAA took scholarships and put them on probation for no reason. Martin was CONVICTED and his COURT testimony shows without question that Webber was paided BIG $$$$

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

You have no credibility. You'll always be a junior member to me. In the world you live in, I'm sure no OSU players ever received special favors not even when there was such pressure on the team and coaches to finally defeat Michigan and win the national title. This compares to how the Red Sox fans always bitch about the Yankees payroll while they simultaneously sign non-homegrown free agents to big bucks.

[Bucky]

You have no credibility. You'll always be a junior member to me. In the world you live in, I'm sure no OSU players ever received special favors not even when there was such pressure on the team and coaches to finally defeat Michigan and win the national title. This compares to how the Red Sox fans always bitch about the Yankees payroll while they simultaneously sign non-homegrown free agents to big bucks.

Someone is a wee bit bitter, and more than a bit delusional. By the way, that is a great explanation of how the Michigan basketball program never did anything wrong, especially coming from a "lawyer". Talk about living in a different world.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Someone is a wee bit bitter, and more than a bit delusional. By the way, that is a great explanation of how the Michigan basketball program never did anything wrong, especially coming from a "lawyer". Talk about living in a different world.
Hey Mr. Junior Member. Still dodging your own faults. That's how you ended up at Dayton huh. You thought you had convinced someone that you went there because of a good fit and not because of inability to get into a better school. Speaking bitter, I have spoken with so many OSU fans who hated the Fab 5 mainly because they defeated Jackson, Funderburke and company in that Elite 8 game. It's funny how you and 14-0 still are too small to reveal what you do. It's as if you too are worried about experiencing that same feeling you did when you wet your pants in elementary school and all the kids laughed at you. BTW, neither of you 2 could hold my jockstrap or my lawyer's briefcase.

[Bucky]

I can assure you your the multiple briefcases that must house your enormous EGO are much bigger than what my head could ever swell to.

How many hours each day do you spend admiring how incredible your are?

[Rupturedduck]

must be tough times for ya in BB,'wolverines' not good(think Amaker in deep poop?)and the 'dookies'floundering big timebut there is a light at the end of the tunnel,look for them to be very good in FB in the fall.

["14-O" U.]

I can assure you your the multiple briefcases that must house your enormous EGO are much bigger than what my head could ever swell to.

How many hours each day do you spend admiring how incredible your are?

And he probably wonders why he can't get a date. Regardless which way he swings, the people that shoot him down can tell that he's compensating for obvious shortcomings.

I like how he edited his user title instead of taking the default -and he thinks that makes him superior!

[HellYeahHokie]

I like how he edited his user title instead of taking the default -and he thinks that makes him superior!

Not only does it make him feel superior, but he uses "Junior Member" as an insult, which I can't even begin to fathom.

[mini_me]

You have no credibility. You'll always be a junior member to me. In the world you live in, I'm sure no OSU players ever received special favors not even when there was such pressure on the team and coaches to finally defeat Michigan and win the national title. This compares to how the Red Sox fans always bitch about the Yankees payroll while they simultaneously sign non-homegrown free agents to big bucks.

LOL Junior Member? I wrote the 2002 preview for OSU Ive been a part of this community for over 5 years. By the way, your reading skills must be something else.. In my OPENING comment, wasnt it my post that pointed out the sins of Maurice Clarett?

Try growing up a bit PLEASE

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

LOL Junior Member? I wrote the 2002 preview for OSU Ive been a part of this community for over 5 years. By the way, your reading skills must be something else.. In my OPENING comment, wasnt it my post that pointed out the sins of Maurice Clarett?

Try growing up a bit PLEASE
Lucky you for being able to write the OSU preview. I know OSU has a rbid fan base so they were probably absorbing every word you wrote. Where was OSU predicted to finish that year? As memories fade, I can remember Gamble intercepting and returning balls for TDs and Clarett stripping the Miami DB of the ball to save the day. BTW, junior member is in your current profile.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

must be tough times for ya in BB,'wolverines' not good(think Amaker in deep poop?)and the 'dookies'floundering big timebut there is a light at the end of the tunnel,look for them to be very good in FB in the fall.
I'm not overly concerned about being good every year. If I were, then Duke would be #1 as no other team has reached the Sweet 16 every year sice 1997. Despite some posters categorizing me incorrectly, I'm not as engulfed in sports as I used to be. In fact, I do not have time to. It hit me last night when I only watched 5 minutes of the Mich-MSU hoops game that times have changed as my responsibilities in life grow. Interestly, many of my clients think like Bucky and 14-0, which forces me to inform them how things really work in law or elsewhere.

Also, I have always embraced the national college sports seen, so I'm never out of touch with what's happening and can find enjoyment in watching other top teams play. I've had plenty of good sports memories from my alma maters and there are undoubtedly many more to come.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Only if you three knew what it was like to represent people like you in legal matters everyday. It's actually people like you 3 that pay my bills. A collective thanks for that. Funny how you 3 hide behind your impotences and inferiorities, and try to deflect attention awy and toward those that successfully maneuver through life, ain't it.

[HellYeahHokie]

Wow, you are going off the deep end.

Listen dude. You are the one who is stroking your own ego on a college football message board. Think about that. You need to brag to strangers in cyberspace about your accomplishments. A first year Psych major could diagnose why you do that.

It's also telling that you need to prop yourself up by denegrating others, who for some reason you think aren't as successful as you are. I don't know about the other two, but I'd hardly think you've got a reason to mock my career accomplishments. I'm doing just fine, thank you. I'm not hiding behind anything, but I certainly don't need to brag about it. Oddly enough, I still don't feel the need to prove myself to people I don't even know. Why do you?

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Wow, you are going off the deep end.

Listen dude. You are the one who is stroking your own ego on a college football message board. Think about that. You need to brag to strangers in cyberspace about your accomplishments. A first year Psych major could diagnose why you do that.

It's also telling that you need to prop yourself up by denegrating others, who for some reason you think aren't as successful as you are. I don't know about the other two, but I'd hardly think you've got a reason to mock my career accomplishments. I'm doing just fine, thank you. I'm not hiding behind anything, but I certainly don't need to brag about it. Oddly enough, I still don't feel the need to prove myself to people I don't even know. Why do you?
We live in two different worlds. I never bragged about anything. Some posters have resorted to challenging my stated facts and so I simply respond with facts about me. However, those challenging never level the playing field. I don't have to stroke my ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths.

[Bucky]

For someone who doesn't "have the time" to even watch 5 minutes of a basketball game, it is amazing how much time you devote to this message board. Your 32 posts are much more than anyone else.

There must be something about braggin on the internet to strangers that completes you. By all means, keep doing what you are doing, whatever makes you happy.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I must say... nobody on here really cares what you do. Especially with the massive size of your EGO.

[mini_me]

For someone who doesn't "have the time" to even watch 5 minutes of a basketball game, it is amazing how much time you devote to this message board. Your 32 posts are much more than anyone else.

There must be something about braggin on the internet to strangers that completes you. By all means, keep doing what you are doing, whatever makes you happy.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I must say... nobody on here really cares what you do. Especially with the massive size of your EGO.


There are 2 types of highly successful people as it pertains to income earners. Those with massively huge egos.... no names needed we all know who they are... and those who are just as successful without the massive egos.

I work in an environment where my peers all are among the top 5% of wage earners in america. Some of the ego's are sickening. In my opinion if your ego keeps you from making a pot of coffee when you take the last cup, you've got problems with your ego.

[HellYeahHokie]

We live in two different worlds. I never bragged about anything. Some posters have resorted to challenging my stated facts and so I simply respond with facts about me. However, those challenging never level the playing field. I don't have to stroke my ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths.

We really do live in two seperate worlds. Reality, and what goes on in your head. You really should read some of your posts (of course the old board is gone now, but you've left plenty on this board). You are compelely deluding yourself.

Might I direct your attention to the following quote by you:

Hey Mr. Junior Member. Still dodging your own faults. That's how you ended up at Dayton huh. You thought you had convinced someone that you went there because of a good fit and not because of inability to get into a better school ... It's funny how you and 14-0 still are too small to reveal what you do. It's as if you too are worried about experiencing that same feeling you did when you wet your pants in elementary school and all the kids laughed at you. BTW, neither of you 2 could hold my jockstrap or my lawyer's briefcase.

And this was just one post. There have been more like this.

Now, explain to me again how you are not stroking your own ego when you bring up how great a lawyer you are? Better yet, repeat the part about how people who attack other people are just running away from their own truths. That's priceless.

[NCT]

If you're going to be so arrogant about informing clients of things and the strength of your education, you might want to pay more attention to your spelling regarding the "sports seen [sic]".

Typos aren't a big deal unless your unreasonably touting your superior intellect (which is, btw, severely unbecoming).

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

You have your opinion and you're certainly not my Judge. Can I hire you to be my spell-checker though as maybe you have too much time on your hands. BTW, if arrogant is derived from defending facts, so be it. I'm personally tired of paying taxes for the deadweight of this country and there's a lot of deadweight in the workplace and in communities. the world has changed and only some have remained flexible enough to succeed. I don't make the rules but you can be certain that I will succeed within them.

BTW, you can pen in Duke now despite your hatred of them. Thank God there are schools like Duke that successful people and families can associate with.

[footballfiji]

this is why this board needs a "Graveyard" forum

a place where dead threads go to die

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

this is why this board needs a "Graveyard" forum

a place where dead threads go to die
I'm willing to bury the thread, but I won't let a negative comment directed toward me end the thread. I'm learning from my beloved U.S. President.

[HellYeahHokie]

Oddly enough, you chose not to respond to my latest post, which clearly shows the contradictions between what your believe to be true, and the reality.

[HellYeahHokie]

In the words of Phil Collins and Genesis...

No reply at all
There was no reply at all...

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Oddly enough, you chose not to respond to my latest post, which clearly shows the contradictions between what your believe to be true, and the reality.
My Reply.

[Scarlet Hayes]

Let me jump in and address the fab 5 situation.

first, the fab 5 should not be celebrated by UM fans. They were/are the reason for the downward spiral of UM bball.

I heard C-Webb interviewed about the Martin situation in the late '90s. Beyond an arrogant a$$. This is C-Webb's response to the interviewer (paraphrasing) - who are you? what can you do for me? you're nobody. who are you? etc, etc, etc... This was the same C-Webb that appeared to try to come off as if he had grown up in the hood. The same C-Webb that said he "didn't have enough money to buy a pizza." The same C-Webb that, along with a few other fab-5ers, hinted that people "had a problem watching 5 young black men play bball." Earth to Chris, Crisler was filled to the rafters to watch you play. Suburban white kids wanted to be you. "had a problem with..." Gimmie a effffing break.

Disclaimer - the above was a rant against the fab 5. not a rant or an attack against the university of Michigan itself. A few of the Fab-5ers are obscenely wealthy men. For them to continue to act as if they were somehow victimized is beyond embarrassing. Unless I missed it, 14 years have gone by...still no apology to UM or its fans.

[HellYeahHokie]

I didn;t think it was possible for a lawyer to have nothing to say, but I guess when the case is lost, invoking the 5th amendment is the best way to go.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

No, I'm just more classy than you are. And your impression of lawyers is 100% incorrect. But don't worry, you'll hate lawyers until you need a good one. BTW, do you smoke weed to overcome your constant boredom.

[HellYeahHokie]

Here are some examples of your class.

Hey Mr. Junior Member. Still dodging your own faults. That's how you ended up at Dayton huh. You thought you had convinced someone that you went there because of a good fit and not because of inability to get into a better school.... It's funny how you and 14-0 still are too small to reveal what you do. It's as if you too are worried about experiencing that same feeling you did when you wet your pants in elementary school and all the kids laughed at you. BTW, neither of you 2 could hold my jockstrap or my lawyer's briefcase.

Only if you three knew what it was like to represent people like you in legal matters everyday. It's actually people like you 3 that pay my bills. A collective thanks for that. Funny how you 3 hide behind your impotences and inferiorities, and try to deflect attention awy and toward those that successfully maneuver through life, ain't it.

...I only watched 5 minutes of the Mich-MSU hoops game that times have changed as my responsibilities in life grow. Interestly, many of my clients think like Bucky and 14-0, which forces me to inform them how things really work in law or elsewhere.

I'm personally tired of paying taxes for the deadweight of this country and there's a lot of deadweight in the workplace and in communities.


But I love how you added this gem, given all these quotes above...

I don't have to stroke my ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths.

That line was priceless. You should continue invoking your 5th amendment rights at this point, because you've posted so much evidence of your own delusion in this thread alone, even the OJ jury would convict.

PS. I don't hate lawyers. My father was a lawyer and a judge, and my best friend is a lawyer. Nor have I ever smoked weed or taken any illegal drug in my life.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Be careful, HYH. I wil destroy you if you choose in any topic you want to whether it be sports, life, politics, education, etc. Keep smoking the weed to kill the boredom. Prove to me that you have any class or that your father was a lawyer and Judge.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

What do you do for a living and prove it? Do you tell everyone what your father does and friends do in order to elevate yourself? And if you had any class wouldn't you stop posting on a thread that had nothing to do with yourself to begin with. And I appreciate your quoting me. It's obvious you have penis envy! and a whole lot of free time.

[HellYeahHokie]

I don't have to stroke my ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

That is a clever reply? Maybe I'm running away. Nah, I'm too much of a trooper. Then again, there's a lot of stress associated with being confident and winning, not to mention being a solo lawyer.

[Scarlet Hayes]

Who lit the fuse and took off? I don't think it was either one of ya, but now you're at each other's throats. I think it was one of my Buckeye brothers that lit the fuse. You guys are like the last 2 guys throwing haymakers in a bar brawl. Everyone else bailed; and the guy that started it left in his candy apple red chevelle at least a half hour ago.

Deep breaths. Both of ya. ;)

[HellYeahHokie]

Oh, I know Scarlet. But once he started in about his superiority over a low-life loser like me, it became comical how self-deluded he was.

The only reason I kept this thread alive was to see if he would ever reconcile this sentance "I don't have to stroke my ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths", with the rest of his comments to me and the other 2 guys. But he never will, because he can't. So I'll leave it alone.

At least until the next time he attacks other people to run away from his own truths.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I like Scarlet's idea, but you have certainly not taught me anything. What do you do?

[HellYeahHokie]

I've mentioned several times over the years that I'm getting a PhD in Environmental Engineering. But I don't need to puff my chest about it, like you do about being a lawyer. I don't think it makes me a better person than anyone else on this board.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I do not puff my chest. If there are dilineations within society, I certainly did not create them. I have no choice but to survive and succeed within the system we all inherited. BTW, I was accepted into Duke's Nicholas School of the Environment and the Yale School of Forestry as a Ph.D. candidate but had decided to practice law instead. The grey and white hairs that have emerged since my decision make me re-think my prediction that enviro causes would not be funded, so I should move to protect my self-interest as become self-employed.

[HellYeahHokie]

I do not puff my chest...

Your posts on this board would suggest otherwise.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

I disagree. It is not uncommon for people in education to hide behind their institutional walls and postulate theories about everyone else performing on a day to day basis. Many times they make themselves believe that performers are arrogant. However, since they surround themselves with intellectual snobs who often cannot translate their intelligence into practical success, they tend to criticize others who may be less intelligent but perform and produce. The ultimate test is found in the results. Due to the foregoing reasons, I left academia forever even though I had worked at Exxon and Andersen between my educational ventures.

[HellYeahHokie]

Let's see. That post included a swipe about people in academia (since I told you I was a PhD) being snobs who can't produce anything, coupled with more tales of your successful life at Exxon and Anderson.

...and this quote still remains...

... I don't have to stroke my own ego, but almost every human knows that those who attack others are often running away from their own truths...

Here are some more of your classic quotes

BTW, neither of you 2 could hold my jockstrap or my lawyer's briefcase.

Be careful, HYH. I wil destroy you if you choose in any topic you want to whether it be sports, life, politics, education, etc.

Oh no. You don't puff your chest. Hahahaha. Comical.

By the way, I was in consulting for 13 years before returning to academia. I'm not hiding behind any institutional walls.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

Dude, you have a blend of selfishness and inferiority. Why do you think everything I post refers directly to you. I thought you were smarter than that or does selfishness trump intelligence. My comments were general comments about the interplay and differences of academia and the real world. You have major mental and emotional problems if you think that I am not speaking in general terms. Maybe if you tried the real world, you would understand the interplay.

Another example of your selfishness stems from when I posted about scheduling on another thread. Have you provided any proof for your theories on scheduling yet and who did not want to play whom? No, you have it. Instead, you postulate in your mind and then believe your own unsubstabtiated theories.

So, learn to not relate every post as an attack or affirmation on or of you. Then, maybe you'll understand my posts.
BTW, you responded to SH that you only enetered this thread, when I attacked you. That's a lie but a nice try. Instead, you tried to defend others and attack me for something only some of you believe to be true. You tried to be some sort of hero and fell into groupthink and I think your colleagues can point you to articles about why you'll suffer if you continue to do so. Get out of your zone once in a while. It's healthy.

BTW, you're education does not impress me. What are you doing to apply your knowledge and how successful have you been doing so?

[Bucky]

For a supposed superior lawyer, too busy to even catch a few minutes of his favorite teams basketball games, he sure does spend countless hours, during all hours of the day, on an internet chat log.

HYH, don't waste your time. I doubt that anyone who reads these ramblings believe any of his fantasies.

[HellYeahHokie]

HYH, don't waste your time. I doubt that anyone who reads these ramblings believe any of his fantasies.

I'm done. It was funny for a while, but the absurdity reached annoying status.

[Hail to the Victors Valiant]

No need to take the fifth Bucky and HYH. You already decided not to answer my questions. And your viewing me as attemting to be superior only evidences your own inferiorities. My clients like me and come back or refer cases to me because they know that I am not arrogant as many lawyers are or can be. That's all the proof I need.

[HellYeahHokie]

I answered your questions as you asked them. You didn't answer mine, you only came up with new questions. Obfuscation at its finest. You clearly are a defense lawyer. So there's no point in continuing.

Believe what you need to believe.