Beating the playoff drum again

[CJHawkeyes]

Based on my proposed format (excludes CCGs), listed below are the 16 qualifiers if current highest ranked teams win out. An explanation of the importance of remaining games is also provided.


1-Oregon (top two finish guarantees three home games, one more loss probably costs the Ducks two home games, two more losses and the Ducks miss the playoffs)
2-Louisiana State (same as Oregon)
3-West Virginia (guaranteed two home games at #3, an Oregon or LSU loss gives them three home games, a loss of their own and they start the playoffs on the road)
4-Kansas (two home games at four but margin between #4 and #5 is slim, a loss drops the Jayhawks down to being the last wildcard qualifier and on the brink of elimination from the playoffs)
5-Arizona State (chasing a top four seed, another loss and the Sun Devils are on the bubble between being the last wildcard team and being out)
6-Oklahoma (same as Arizona State)
7-Ohio State (has clinched Big Ten auto berth as highest ranked member based on all games, only team on this list assured of a playoff berth, Michigan game could mean the difference between a top four seed (two home games) and falling to 12th or 13th)
8-Georgia (opens with a home game at #8, slim shot at four seed, a loss in final two games knocks them from playoffs)
9-Clemson (controls ACC destiny, a loss eliminates them and opens the door to BC, UVa, or VT)
10-Texas (winning out assures the Longhorns nothing and a loss eliminates them)
11-Missouri (beat Kansas and the Tigers are a likely top four seed, lose and the line between making and missing the playoffs is very thin)
12-Boise State (comes down to Hawaii game, winner sits here)
13-Brigham Young (MWC could come down to BYU-Utah game
14-Central Florida (lose and Tulsa likely takes their place here)
15-Troy (this spot could come down to Florida Atlantic game)
16-Central Michigan (lose and Bowling Green likely takes their place)

[Bucky]

So you get it, not by winning the conference championship or title, but by being the "highest ranked member based on all games"?

At the very least, if a playoff were this large, the winner of the Big Ten Title should automatically qualify. Based on what you are saying, Michigan could beat Ohio State win the Big Ten and not make the playoff? If so, that is a serious flaw.

[CJHawkeyes]

So you get it, not by winning the conference championship or title, but by being the "highest ranked member based on all games"?

At the very least, if a playoff were this large, the winner of the Big Ten Title should automatically qualify. Based on what you are saying, Michigan could beat Ohio State win the Big Ten and not make the playoff? If so, that is a serious flaw.

I see where others might not like this aspect of my format. However, I prefer to base all berths on the entire season. That said, if Michigan had beaten Wisconsin last week or Appalachian State to start the season, this game would be for the auto Big Ten berth. I applied this rule throught out the years and something like 270 of 300 highest ranked conference members won their official conference titles. Another 10 or so were the conference's highest ranked in the polls. My reasoning for this rule is that the auto bid is suppose to guarantee each conference one representative no matter their ranking. However, using conference games only to decide auto bids will allow conferences to back door more members into the playoffs than they deserve. For example, #20 overall wins its conference due to tiebreaker bumping #4 into the at-large pool where it is sure to qualify bumping #11 out of the playoffs. Under my format, #4 and #11 qualify as opposed to #4 and #20. In the latter instance, one conference gets to "save" its auto berth for a team that needs it and gains two playoff teams while #11 is cheated by this scenario.

[HellYeahHokie]

So you get it, not by winning the conference championship or title, but by being the "highest ranked member based on all games"?

At the very least, if a playoff were this large, the winner of the Big Ten Title should automatically qualify. Based on what you are saying, Michigan could beat Ohio State win the Big Ten and not make the playoff? If so, that is a serious flaw.

Remember, CJ has proposed eliminating conferences. So, you have to view his proposal in that perspective.

[ZOOMBAG]

Conferences, divisions, etc.... are an integral part of most team sports. In any playoiff a conference championship should guarantee a post season spot. That is fundamental to all team sports.

[CJHawkeyes]

Remember, CJ has proposed eliminating conferences. So, you have to view his proposal in that perspective.

You just don't appreciate my genius. :rolleyes:

[CJHawkeyes]

Conferences, divisions, etc.... are an integral part of most team sports. In any playoiff a conference championship should guarantee a post season spot. That is fundamental to all team sports.

This format does that. The idea that all games are used to determine each conference's automatic qualifier is something many others may object to. That said, all of my ideas are pure fantasy anyway. I just suggest ideas to create discussion whether or not I'm even sold on the them.

[CJHawkeyes]

Remember, CJ has proposed eliminating conferences. So, you have to view his proposal in that perspective.

BTW, what is wrong with the idea that Bucky labels as a "serious flaw"?

[EvilVodka]

BTW, what is wrong with the idea that Bucky labels as a "serious flaw"?

It makes conference titles and races meaningless and undermines the conferences preference for choosing a champ

The National Championship is important, but not at the expense of conference championships

[H.I.]

It makes conference titles and races meaningless and undermines the conferences preference for choosing a champ

you mean sort of like the BCS did when it allowed non-division winner Nebraska into the 2001 National Championship game. or what about a few years later when OU got waxed by Kansas State in the Big 12 championship game only to be awarded a berth in the National Title game. the current BCS format doesn't really care if you're a conference champion, just as long as you get enough opinion votes that think you're the one of the two best teams - that's really the only thing that matters - even if you end up losing your conference title. history has proven that.

[CJHawkeyes]

It makes conference titles and races meaningless and undermines the conferences preference for choosing a champ

The National Championship is important, but not at the expense of conference championships

How are conference races meaningless just because all games count towards conference races? Also, if everyone were actually agreeable to this format, how would it undermine a conference's preference for choosing a champ?

The rule does not amount to a serious flaw because someone might prefer a different rule. A serious flaw is using different rules to determine national and conference standings which may reward a conference because its champion and highest ranked member are different teams while punishing another because they are the same team.

[Blue Hen]

Conference championships.......about the only non-opinionated, non 'ranked' thing we have in big time CF, CJH. You gotta start there in building any kind of legitimate playoff.

[CJHawkeyes]

Conference championships.......about the only non-opinionated, non 'ranked' thing we have in big time CF, CJH. You gotta start there in building any kind of legitimate playoff.

My idea is pure fantasy anyway. That said, I don't see using all games to determine each conference's auto qualifier as any different than what all other sports do. 90% of the the highest ranked members under my system are the official conference champion. As an example of why I like this rule: In 2001, 11-2 Fresno State would have been the WAC's automatic qualifier. Based on conference games only, 7-4 Louisiana Tech would have been the AQ. I prefer awarding the berth to Fresno State. Awarding it to Louisiana Tech doesn't necessarily hurt Fresno State. It hurts the team that would otherwise be the last at-large qualifier if Fresno State is not a part of the at-large pool.

[Blue Hen]

If you consider all games for awarding a conference championship , you get into that fuzzy, self serving area of 'custom scheduling'. Teams shouldn't be able to custom schedule their way into conference crowns or national playoffs...imo.

[EvilVodka]

you mean sort of like the BCS did when it allowed non-division winner Nebraska into the 2001 National Championship game. or what about a few years later when OU got waxed by Kansas State in the Big 12 championship game only to be awarded a berth in the National Title game. the current BCS format doesn't really care if you're a conference champion, just as long as you get enough opinion votes that think you're the one of the two best teams - that's really the only thing that matters - even if you end up losing your conference title. history has proven that.

1st off -- the BCS isn't just the title game, its the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta Bowls as well, and those bowls are anchors to the 6 BCS Conference Champions

2nd -- the examples you cited are NOT represented by the current BCS formula...while a conference title isn't required to make the championship, backing into the title game would be alot harder now than in the previous BCS formula...with the current formula, Oregon '01 and USC '03 would have made the championship games

[CJHawkeyes]

If you consider all games for awarding a conference championship , you get into that fuzzy, self serving area of 'custom scheduling'. Teams shouldn't be able to custom schedule their way into conference crowns or national playoffs...imo.

Custom scheduling wouldn't work under my system. Teams couldn't expect to get away with OOC schedules like those played by Ohio State and Kansas this year. Again, I understand why others might not like this idea but I like it for reasons I have explained. This rule also touches on the phony controversy created by 2001 Nebraska and 2003 Oklahoma playing for the BCS title without winning their conference. The BCS title game is suppose to match the top two teams based on all games, but some fans think teams should be eliminated from that game if a portion of their resume does not place them first in a separate competition based on different rules. Even if conference qualifiers are done based on conference games only, I suspect non-champions could be seeded higher than their conference's champion. So, I see no problem with just recognizing the highest ranked member as the automatic qualifier provided it is determined by objective means.

[EvilVodka]

My idea is pure fantasy anyway. That said, I don't see using all games to determine each conference's auto qualifier as any different than what all other sports do. 90% of the the highest ranked members under my system are the official conference champion. As an example of why I like this rule: In 2001, 11-2 Fresno State would have been the WAC's automatic qualifier. Based on conference games only, 7-4 Louisiana Tech would have been the AQ. I prefer awarding the berth to Fresno State. Awarding it to Louisiana Tech doesn't necessarily hurt Fresno State. It hurts the team that would otherwise be the last at-large qualifier if Fresno State is not a part of the at-large pool.

How exactly is that fair to Louisiana Tech? Your plan undermines the significance of conference championships

[CJHawkeyes]

How exactly is that fair to Louisiana Tech? Your plan undermines the significance of conference championships

How is it unfair? Louisiana Tech could have been the automatic qualifier by not losing four games including losing to Fresno State. All I have done is changed how the champion is determined. I understand why others might not like it, but I fail to see how it qualifies as a flaw.

[EvilVodka]

How is it unfair? Louisiana Tech could have been the automatic qualifier by not losing four games including losing to Fresno State. All I have done is changed how the champion is determined. I understand why others might not like it, but I fail to see how it qualifies as a flaw.

Louisiana Tech had a better conference record...you have to value what they accomplished in conference...

Let me put it this way...if I was a conference commissioner, I would want no part of this plan

[Bucs90]

Hen, would you agree a CCG is mandatory for a CC? OSU and Iowa both went undefeated in the Big 10 in 2002, but didn't play each other. That CCG may have changed the BCS NC had Iowa won, or maybe would have boosted OSU to not being such a percieved underdog against Miami.

[GatorGrad]

Hen, would you agree a CCG is mandatory for a CC? OSU and Iowa both went undefeated in the Big 10 in 2002, but didn't play each other. That CCG may have changed the BCS NC had Iowa won, or maybe would have boosted OSU to not being such a percieved underdog against Miami.

Either CCG format (12 teams) or round robin (8 to 10 teams) are the ways to go. The Big Ten's 11-team format is silliness, the main reason being that it is actually possible for two teams to both finish 8-0, not have to play each other, and both be declared "Big Ten Champions."

[Blue Hen]

If all conferences were of the same size I'd surely advocate that they determine their champion in the same manner.